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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #201
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Sgt Meowenstein;1059257768]Then stop acting like illegals are the only problem.
    Have a reading comprehension problem? I said that illegals are A problem and showed the cost to my county alone. Why didn't Obama and the Congress break down the costs of healthcare in this country before passing a law that no one read?


    I just did. A couple of them, in fact. But since you can't read, let me try this again.

    Here are more polls that support my argument:
    And I posted the Real Clear Politics side showing all the polls.




    There's that old "I'm more American than you" conservative argument. I was wondering when you'd pull it out.
    If the shoe fits, wear it. Doesn't look to me like you have a clue as to what our Founders created.


    This is the greatest country on the face of the earth. I believe that the gov't has a responsibility to give its citizens access to affordable, top-notch health care. I'm sorry you disagree; but that doesn't make me any less of an American than you
    This is the greatest country on the face of the earth because of the freedoms we have. Obamacare takes away one of those freedoms, freedom of choice. Healthcare isn't a govt. responsibility, it is a personal responsibility. give the govt the ability for that kind of mandate, what is nexts?

    I asked you how many people in this country cannot afford healthcare and you ignored the question. Do some research and get back to me then tell me why it is the Governments role to pass a massive entitlement program to take care of that few of a number?

  2. #202
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    This is the greatest country on the face of the earth. I believe that the gov't has a responsibility to give its citizens access to affordable, top-notch health care. I'm sorry you disagree; but that doesn't make me any less of an American than you.
    The part you left out is you believe the gov't has the right to force people to buy it or be penalized, whether or not it's affordable or not, whether it's top-notch and you use vague and subjective terms like "affordable" and "top-notch", which mean nothing. It comes down to you believe in gov't usurpation of individual rights for what ideologically is percieved by progressive liberals as "for your own good". Constitutional or not, which is a sheeple mind set based on some hive morality. I'm sorry you don't see it that way but that's what it is. Those who disagree with you want market based competition, want individual responsibility and rights to out weigh those of the collective, and want it based on the Constitution. If the SCOTUS deems it Constitutional, you'll have 1 out of 3.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #203
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Then stop acting like illegals are the only problem.



    Pot, meet kettle.



    I just did. A couple of them, in fact. But since you can't read, let me try this again.

    Here are more polls that support my argument:









    There's that old "I'm more American than you" conservative argument. I was wondering when you'd pull it out.



    This is the greatest country on the face of the earth. I believe that the gov't has a responsibility to give its citizens access to affordable, top-notch health care. I'm sorry you disagree; but that doesn't make me any less of an American than you.

  4. #204
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    It would not save money it would cost money. Tax payers would end up paying more. Look at England that can no longer pay for their government health care. Government does never lower the cost of anything
    That's because you're comparing the level of pre-reform government spending with the level of post-reform government spending. I'm talking about OVERALL health care spending. That's a better measure of the economic viability of the system, because even though your taxes would go up under a single-payer system or a public option, your own personal health care premiums would decline.

    The US spends 16% of its GDP on health care expenditures (including both public and private spending). The next-highest countries spend only 11%, and the OECD average is a mere 8%. Despite this, we don't seem to have any unambiguous advantage in the quality of our health care. That's why it strains credibility to claim that emulating some of the features of other countries' health care systems would increase our costs.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-01-11 at 01:33 PM.
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's because you're comparing the level of pre-reform government spending with the level of post-reform government spending. I'm talking about OVERALL health care spending. That's a better measure of the economic viability of the system, because even though your taxes would go up under a single-payer system or a public option, your own personal health care premiums would decline.

    The US spends 16% of its GDP on health care expenditures (including both public and private spending). The next-highest countries spend only 11%, and the OECD average is a mere 8%. Despite this, we don't seem to have any unambiguous advantage in the quality of our health care. That's why it strains credibility to claim that emulating some of the features of other countries' health care systems would increase our costs.
    You miss a basic point, the U.S. economy is mostly private sector whereas most other countries has a strong public sector. Much of the spending on healthcare in this country is done by the private sector and thus doesn't affect taxes whereas most of the spending in other countries is actual govt. thus taxpayer expenditures. That is apples vs. oranges.

    As for the point however no one has addressed the costs of healthcare in this country. until you do that real reform and effective healthcare cannot be implemented here. This issue remains that this is all about access thus control on the part of this Administration. Get everyone covered and then when it fails the people are dependent on liberalism thus you end up getting exactly what liberals want, a massive govt. that controls people's lives.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Have a reading comprehension problem?
    Nope. Having a problem understanding that illegals aren't the only problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And I posted the Real Clear Politics side showing all the polls.
    And I posted several polls that show support for the public option. So, what's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    If the shoe fits, wear it. Doesn't look to me like you have a clue as to what our Founders created.
    So, because I disagree with you, I'm less of an American than you? Typical con. Thanks for probing my point. Commie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This is the greatest country on the face of the earth because of the freedoms we have. Obamacare takes away one of those freedoms, freedom of choice. Healthcare isn't a govt. responsibility, it is a personal responsibility. give the govt the ability for that kind of mandate, what is nexts?
    Too bad a majority of Americans disagree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I asked you how many people in this country cannot afford healthcare and you ignored the question. Do some research and get back to me then tell me why it is the Governments role to pass a massive entitlement program to take care of that few of a number?
    Really? 50 million uninsured people is a small number to you? And you think those 50 million people don't deserve health insurance? Good to know.

    More than 50 million people were uninsured last year, almost one in six U.S. residents, the Census Bureau reported Thursday. The percentage with private insurance was the lowest since the government began keeping data in 1987.

    Number of uninsured Americans rises to 50.7 million - USATODAY.com


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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You miss a basic point, the U.S. economy is mostly private sector whereas most other countries has a strong public sector. Much of the spending on healthcare in this country is done by the private sector and thus doesn't affect taxes whereas most of the spending in other countries is actual govt. thus taxpayer expenditures. That is apples vs. oranges.

    As for the point however no one has addressed the costs of healthcare in this country. until you do that real reform and effective healthcare cannot be implemented here. This issue remains that this is all about access thus control on the part of this Administration. Get everyone covered and then when it fails the people are dependent on liberalism thus you end up getting exactly what liberals want, a massive govt. that controls people's lives.
    As if the private sector doesn't try to control people's lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    As if the private sector doesn't try to control people's lives.
    The private sector passes laws that control people's lives?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The part you left out is you believe the gov't has the right to force people to buy it or be penalized, whether or not it's affordable or not, whether it's top-notch and you use vague and subjective terms like "affordable" and "top-notch", which mean nothing. It comes down to you believe in gov't usurpation of individual rights for what ideologically is percieved by progressive liberals as "for your own good". Constitutional or not, which is a sheeple mind set based on some hive morality. I'm sorry you don't see it that way but that's what it is. Those who disagree with you want market based competition, want individual responsibility and rights to out weigh those of the collective, and want it based on the Constitution. If the SCOTUS deems it Constitutional, you'll have 1 out of 3.
    This is essentially your argument: I'm a conservative. I'm right. You're wrong. You hate America. I don't.

    How am I supposed to argue with an extreme conservative who only sees things his way? Answer: I can't. You'll never convince me to abandon my ideals. Unless you can say something other than "You're wrong, I'm right", then I'm done arguing with you.


  10. #210
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You miss a basic point, the U.S. economy is mostly private sector whereas most other countries has a strong public sector. Much of the spending on healthcare in this country is done by the private sector and thus doesn't affect taxes whereas most of the spending in other countries is actual govt. thus taxpayer expenditures. That is apples vs. oranges.
    No it's not. Those numbers included ALL health care spending in all countries...public AND private. In the US, it's mostly private with a little bit of public. In many European countries, it's mostly public with a little bit of private. The TOTAL expenditures on health care are far higher here than in any other OECD country.

    If we had a public option and it increased the average tax bill by, say, $1,000 while reducing the average premium by $1,500, I'd call that a reduction in costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative
    As for the point however no one has addressed the costs of healthcare in this country. until you do that real reform and effective healthcare cannot be implemented here. This issue remains that this is all about access thus control on the part of this Administration. Get everyone covered and then when it fails the people are dependent on liberalism thus you end up getting exactly what liberals want, a massive govt. that controls people's lives.
    Most other OECD countries have shown that you can give everyone access, reduce total costs, and have no worse health outcomes than we do here. Sounds like they have something we might learn from, but instead your idea of "real reform" is to move in the OPPOSITE direction of all these success stories.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-01-11 at 01:50 PM.
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