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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #191
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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Good, then all mandates will be thrown out. We'll no longer have to buy auto insurance. Perhaps we'll no longer have to pay income tax.
    Still using this ridiculous argument.

    You don't have to buy auto-insurance. If I lived and worked in Washington DC and didn't have any family living in the state, I wouldn't have it. I'd have public transportation, my bike, or a scooter to take me wherever I needed to go.

    You only have teo buy auto-insurance if you're wanting to register a vehicle with the federal government to drive it on federally maintained roads.

    In regards to the income tax, its been found constitutional by courts based on the fact that the constitution allows for the levying of taxes.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Calm down, champ. I never said that Obama's people were the authority of anything constitutional. What I meant is that he had a smart people working with him. They're betting that the mandate is constitutional.
    If Obama's "people" are so smart, how did they forget to put a severability clause into the health care reform bill ???

    Every first year law student knows to put severability into every contract and legal document. Because they left it out, this entire bill has been ruled unconstitutional.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  3. #193
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    The fact is tort reform is a tiny fraction of medical costs. I don't see why you think posting the above changes that.
    Because what you see as a tiny fraction are only the costs which are seen. The unseen costs of insurance malpractice insurance rates, legal fees, and the number of doctors who retire prematurely due to not being able or willing to pay such high premiums are not involved in the calculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    A person who actually thinks tort reform will significantly change medical costs is ignorant.
    Actually it's the other way around... by not understanding or wanting to understand the underlying costs (cause/effects) of tort reform, a person who argues only about the seen monies is ignorant.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    If the government setup a medicare/medicaid system for all, I wouldn't be happy with it. I think it would reslt in lower quality of care. Additionally, I think it would have zero chance of passing in the current congress. However, I don't believe that it would be unconstitutional.
    I guess it's out of the question for the Federal governments healthcare to compete in the market place with the rest of the private sector - hence the need for a mandate. Wonder what would happen if the Fed passed a law allowing interstate purchase of health care, and then put the Obamacare out there without a mandate? That way the poor can purchase from the Fed and the Fed would have to compete and keep their books in the black without taxpayer subsidy. Somehow I think that would be the shortest living healthcare plan evah.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I have to laugh whenever I see another conservative denying that people are denied life-saving procedures because they either don't have health insurance or their insurers won't cover the procedure. Conservatives seem to think that everything is just fine. I guess that's why Republicans did nothing to fix the HC system during all of those years that they controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.
    You want to help those who aren't covered, you pay for it. Me, I want it left up to the states and the company's in those states. Let them compete for the lowest prices to drive down costs and keep federal oversight to make sure they are playing fair. Don't mandate anything - it's heavy handed, inappropriate and as we shall see - probably unconstitutional. The problem is, Obamacare cannot compete and survive in the open market - therefore the need for a mandate, to make the pool large enough so it doesn't cave in on itself from the start.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I have to laugh whenever I see another conservative denying that people are denied life-saving procedures because they either don't have health insurance or their insurers won't cover the procedure. Conservatives seem to think that everything is just fine. I guess that's why Republicans did nothing to fix the HC system during all of those years that they controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.
    My son has medicaid I just paid $2500 for dental it does not cover. This is what we will get with Obama care substandard care at higher costs

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    it turns out our vaunted former editor of harvard law review isn't so very well versed, after all:

    In his 78-page ruling, Judge Vinson wrote that the entire law must be voided because the individual insurance mandate is "not severable" from the rest of the law. Some laws contain what's known as a severability clause that says the rest of the law stands should a judge strike down a piece of it. But Democrats left it out.
    some fodder for you constitutional scholars, 60 second clickers:

    Under the Obama administration's logic, [Vinson] wrote, "Congress could require that everyone above a certain income threshold buy a General Motors automobile—now partially government-owned—because those who do not buy GM cars (or those who buy foreign cars) are adversely impacting commerce and a taxpayer-subsidized business."
    meanwhile, politics proceeds:

    Now even some Democrats who voted for the overhaul are contemplating whether Congress should strip out the so-called individual mandate, a once unthinkable scenario since the provision is seen as the backbone of the law. Since the law requires insurance companies to accept all comers, even people who are already sick, it requires healthy people to buy coverage as well.
    Judge Rejects Health Law - WSJ.com

    seeya on the floor, folks

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    So, we go back to paying for the freeloaders who show up at the ER w/o coverage?

    He's an activist judge alright, but for what side.
    So everyone that goes to the ER is a freeloader without insurance? have you bothered to do any research on what is going on in Massachuetts right now with their universal healthcare program? Why are you ignoring the results? obama sure is because that is the model for Obamacare. Results don't matter because for a liberal it is all about access no matter the cost or poor service.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, they aren't but they are part of the problem
    Then stop acting like illegals are the only problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    hasn't stopped you from speculating, has it?
    Pot, meet kettle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Then cite for me a reputable poll supporting your statement [that Americans support a public option]
    I just did. A couple of them, in fact. But since you can't read, let me try this again.

    Here are more polls that support my argument:

    Here are some of the results of the telephone survey of 2,999 households called from November 9-17 as part of the Thomson Reuters PULSE Healthcare Survey:

    * Believe in public option: 59.9 percent yes, 40.1 percent no.

    * 86 percent of Democrats support the public option versus 57 percent of Independents and 33 percent of Republicans.

    Most in U.S. want public health option: poll | Reuters
    The new CNN poll’s internals show that the public option is more popular than the Senate health care proposal by a whopping 17 point difference.

    The poll finds that only 36% favor the Senate proposal, versus 61% who oppose it.

    By contrast, the poll finds that 53% favor the public option, versus 46% who oppose it.

    Poll: Public Option Way More Popular Than Senate Health Care Propsal | The Plum Line
    When asked how important they thought it was for Congress to work on “establishment of a public option that would give individuals a choice between government provided health insurance or private health insurance,” 67 percent of Americans rated this as an important topic to address. This finding is even more striking given the fact that 59 percent of those in favor of repealing the health care reform legislation rated the public option as important to pursue. Another surprise is that 67 percent of Republicans and 59 percent of Independents also agreed that the public option was an important topic to be addressed by Congress.

    Wonk Room » POLL: 59% Of Those In Favor Of Repeal Want Congress To Pursue The Public Option
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Guess anything that disagrees with you is right wing ideology. Interesting how that ideology is more closely aligned with the Founders than yours.
    There's that old "I'm more American than you" conservative argument. I was wondering when you'd pull it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    If you pay for your healthcare then why shouldn't others? Why the passion to have the govt. take your money and give it to someone else? Handle it locally and eliminate the middleman.
    This is the greatest country on the face of the earth. I believe that the gov't has a responsibility to give its citizens access to affordable, top-notch health care. I'm sorry you disagree; but that doesn't make me any less of an American than you.


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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    From an economic standpoint, you'd still have the free rider problem if you did it at the state level, just like you would if you didn't require healthy people to buy insurance. Suppose that one state decides to cover all its residents...so you wait until you get sick, then you move to that state to take advantage of the coverage. This drives up the cost of insurance, which discourages healthy people from moving to that state, which further drives up the cost of insurance, etc. It's just a slightly less exaggerated version of the same problem associated with trying to end preexisting conditions without an individual mandate.

    From a logistical standpoint, the biggest reason to do it at the federal level is simply because it's less of a pain in the ass to have one standard than to have 50 standards. You may discount this as unimportant, but a sizable fraction of all health care spending goes to pushing paper and bureaucratic compliance with various government agencies and insurance companies. Consolidating it all in one place can reduce these costs.
    Moving from state to state is so eashy these days. Of course there are no residency requirements.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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