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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #11
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    This was not a surprise. It'll be appealed.
    Yep, and that is where it belongs to reign in the Congress that overstretched its authority. There is nothing in the Constitution that requires Americans to purchase individual responsibility items.

    How will the repeal of this bill hurt private insurance?
    Last edited by Conservative; 01-31-11 at 04:30 PM.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nope. It just means that people will be able to game the system and it will destroy the entire private insurance sector. That's A-OK with me.



    Huh? Funding? The individual mandate has nothing to do with how the bill is funded. I don't think you understand the arguments why it was included in the first place. Makes it rather difficult to rebut you...
    You are kidding, right? People forced to purchase insurance or pay a fine is all about funding. Without the massive increase in the pool this bill cannot be funded.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are kidding, right? People forced to purchase insurance or pay a fine is all about funding. Without the massive increase in the pool this bill cannot be funded.
    Let's hope a REAL change to health care can begin - such as purchasing healthcare across state lines and tort reform. Both of which will do more for people than almost anything in the current abortion of a bill.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are kidding, right? People forced to purchase insurance or pay a fine is all about funding. Without the massive increase in the pool this bill cannot be funded.
    Perhaps you should figure out the actual arguments in favor of the mandate before you hoot and holler in opposition. If you don't even understand the arguments in favor of the mandate, then you can't show us dummies where we're wrong.

    I'll help you out: The individual mandate was included because preexisting conditions were being banned, in order to prevent people from waiting until they get sick to sign up for health insurance, thus driving health care costs out of control until no one signed up and the health insurance companies were bankrupted. It has absolutely nothing to do with government funding, and that was never even part of the discussion; the funding for the law is generated through tax increases and Medicare cuts. The amount of revenue that would be generated from these fines is a pittance. You could take those fines and set the money on fire, and it wouldn't make much difference.

    We're just talking past each other though. You clearly don't understand the contents of the law.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-31-11 at 04:43 PM.
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Let's hope a REAL change to health care can begin - such as purchasing healthcare across state lines and tort reform. Both of which will do more for people than almost anything in the current abortion of a bill.
    Exactly and that has always been my problem with healthcare costs. No one has totally addressed what goes into those costs including legal expense, selling across state lines, govt. regulations, R&D requirements before implementing a bill that assures access but does nothing to lower costs, improve quality, and increases the number of hospitals and doctors.

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Perhaps you should figure out the actual arguments in favor of the mandate before you hoot and holler in opposition. If you don't even understand the arguments in favor of the mandate, then you can't show us dummies where we're wrong.

    I'll help you out: The individual mandate was included because preexisting conditions were being banned, in order to prevent people from waiting until they get sick to sign up for health insurance, thus driving health care costs out of control until no one signed up and the health insurance companies were bankrupted. It has absolutely nothing to do with government funding; the funding is generated through tax increases and Medicare cuts. The amount of revenue that would be generated from these fines is a pittance. You could take those fines and set the money on fire, and it wouldn't make much difference.

    We're just talking past each other though. You clearly don't understand the contents of the law.
    Don't bother helping me out as you need to help yourself out first. The individual mandate violates the Constitution when it comes to forcing Americans to buy anything related to personal responsibility issues. Tax increases are part of the personal mandates in the form of penalities for not getting insurance and there will be no Medicare cuts. I doubt seriously that pre-existing conditions had anything to do with Obama proposing Obamacare. Makes for great publicity though. This is about power and Obama vision for this country. "change that we can believe in!" How is that hope and change working out?

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Perhaps you should figure out the actual arguments in favor of the mandate before you hoot and holler in opposition. If you don't even understand the arguments in favor of the mandate, then you can't show us dummies where we're wrong.

    I'll help you out: The individual mandate was included because preexisting conditions were being banned, in order to prevent people from waiting until they get sick to sign up for health insurance, thus driving health care costs out of control until no one signed up and the health insurance companies were bankrupted. It has absolutely nothing to do with government funding, and that was never even part of the discussion; the funding for the law is generated through tax increases and Medicare cuts. The amount of revenue that would be generated from these fines is a pittance. You could take those fines and set the money on fire, and it wouldn't make much difference.

    We're just talking past each other though. You clearly don't understand the contents of the law.
    The judge doesn't seem to agree. He voided the entire act:
    "because the individual mandate is unconstitutional and not severable, the entire Act must be declared void."

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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Tax increases are part of the personal mandates in the form of penalities for not getting insurance
    Glad you agree. Congratulations, you just undermined the entire conservative legal argument against the mandate. I'm sure that was a heartfelt matter of principle, and not because you don't even understand the issues being debated in the courts. You should be Obama's solicitor-general, since you're so adept at making his legal argument that the mandate is a tax by another name.
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Centrist View Post
    Yes, those children with preexisting conditions and cancer patients who've been dropped from their health care will be thrilled.
    Yes, there is no denying that many NEED healthcare.

    The government could have (and can still) provide adequate health care coverage expanding, altering or improving the existing programs to help the others who are in need.

    But I should not have to purchase coverage for myself - or pay a fine if I choose not to - to cover this for someone else.
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Glad you agree. Congratulations, you just undermined the entire conservative legal argument against the mandate. I'm sure that was a heartfelt matter of principle, and not because you don't even understand the issues being debated in the courts. You should be Obama's solicitor-general, since you're so adept at making his legal argument that the mandate is a tax by another name.
    Apparently you don't understand the issue as well as you claim. Although the authority to raise taxes in allowed under the 14th Amendment there is no such authority on personal responsibility issues and that is the point and why it will be judicated in the SC. You cannot force Americans to pay for a personal responsibility issue by taxing them.

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