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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #131
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If you're just going to trot out stupid cliches instead of actually discussing the issue, I'm finished responding to you. Kthxbai.
    Fine by me, but it is what Obama promised. If we liked our coverage, we could keep it. Of course the two words in politics that mean the least, "Obama said..." LOL
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  2. #132
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    the judge ruled that an injunction is not necessary as the pulling of the mandate unprops the whole thing

    he ruled the entire bill unconstitutional

    he also decided against the expansion of medicaid, the mother of unfunded mandates (so called by phil bredesen, on behalf of a slew of dem gubs)

    regardless of what proceeds in appeals, the mandate is in prodigious political peril in upper parliament

    it was already looking at an uphill slog to survive, all 47 R's (who signed on to all out repeal this afternoon) will vote to kill it

    and if senators like missouri's mccaskill are against it, loyal obamacare water carrier for 2 years, then the two nelsons and manchin and tester and conrad and lieberman and webb and bingaman and, truly, about a half dozen others are likely to go

    that is, legalities aside, the politics of this are poison to the party in power proceeding

    at the state level, where obamacare legislated large leeway for the commonwealths to craft and implement their own particular visions of the exchanges, we've already seen the determined dispositions of TWENTY SEVEN ag's...

    can't you foresee what this means at the state level?

    do you think all those republican governors and legislatures and INSURANCE COMMISIONERS are gonna inaugurate obamacare with eagerness?

    especially after this?

    obamacare is the epitome of pyrrhic triumph in our contemporary politics

    all pain, no gain

    it helped win my side the house (biggest swing since 1938), 21 state legs and 693 reps (most in history), 10 gubs, 6 senators...

    hey, when we haul ms sebelius before energy and commerce and grill her on those 800 exemptions (why does everyone want out, why do you let them go, can everyone leave, what will you say to the next 1000 applicants...)

    how's that gonna fly when exposed to open air?

    the burdens on the bankrupt states, the half tril cuts to medicare, the collection of personal data, the hiring of extra irs agents?

    obama is starting to see---he's STUCK

    in his phony reaganite sotu, he's more NEGATIVE about the bill than he is positive:

    Now, I’ve heard rumors that a few of you have some concerns about the new health care law. So let me be the first to say that anything can be improved. If you have ideas about how to improve this law by making care better or more affordable, I am eager to work with you. We can start right now by correcting a flaw in the legislation that has placed an unnecessary bookkeeping burden on small businesses.
    Remarks of President Barack Obama in State of the Union Address -- As Prepared for Delivery | The White House

    in his hour long address, he prioritized his prime piece BELOW race to the top, start, credit card reform

    he actually dwelt longer and more lovingly on his student loan program which was actually passed as PART of obamacare, added late as a sweetener

    the handwriting's on the wall---obamacare is coming apart

    seeya in the courts, chums, in congress, in the capitols, in committee

    we'll hold hearings on every clumsy clause

    we'll disinfect with sunlight the mandate, the hit on the states, the exemptions, the cuts in funding simultaneous with this massive expansion of enrollment...

    try to see moves ahead

    bottom line---how do you control health care costs while massively expanding its enrollment?

    stay up

  3. #133
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What if instead they forced you to buy insurance coverage from the federal government? Would that placate you?
    If the government setup a medicare/medicaid system for all, I wouldn't be happy with it. I think it would reslt in lower quality of care. Additionally, I think it would have zero chance of passing in the current congress. However, I don't believe that it would be unconstitutional.

  4. #134
    Steve
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    'seems to be legal because it has existed for x years' is a very poor argument. There's much better ways to argue the health care bill than this.

    The only reason SS is still here is because its very popular, not because its constitutional.
    Something is enacted, it exists for a long time, that is legal precedence, not popularity. Courts use precedence every day. Cases are won and lost on it. It is very important in our legal system, and a damn good argument.
    Do not write in this space!

  5. #135
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Bottom line: tort reform is not important.
    wannabe reagan disagrees

    I don't have any problem with that.
    few care what you do or don't have problems with

  6. #136
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If the government instead raised taxes across the board, then offered a tax credit for those who had insurance, would you still think it was illegal?
    don't know

    but even obama isn't dumb enough to enact your first step

    Obama Calls Tax Cuts the 'Right Thing to Do'

  7. #137
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Kandahar;1059256880]Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA don't seem to have incurred any legal problems as to their legitimacy.
    Not everyone pays into those programs and the VA requires military service


    The majority of the American people either approve of the law or wish it had gone farther.
    You need to get out of the beltway more, that simply isn't true.


    A bare-bones policy that I'm quite certain would try to screw me over if the need ever arose, yes.
    Still don't seem to comprehend personal responsibility issues. The govt. screws you over everyday but it must feel so good you want to extend the effort.

    As to your question: I don't have the exact statistics. Some are unable to afford it due to low incomes, some are unable to afford it due to pursuing higher education, and some are unable to afford it due to being too old or having a preexisting condition. And some are unable to afford it because our tax structure distorts the incentive for insurers to offer individual plans, as opposed to corporate plans (a problem which was not solved by the reform law, but should be).
    Don't you think you should get the exact number before trying to force a program on the rest of us? Low income people qualify for Medicaid, some qualify for Medicare if they are old enough , some are illegal aliens that use the services and don't pay for it, some are offered healthcare with their company but CHOOSE not to participate, some are rich enough to fund their own healthcare costs.


    We have by far the highest health care costs in the world, with no better results than many other countries.

    So I am told, wonder why? Have you ever bothered to do the research to find out why our costs are so high? Don't you think you should? How much do govt. regulations add to costs? How about malpractice suits? How about our porous borders and illegals using the ER's? How about the inability to compete across state lines? How about FDA approval time for drugs and govt. approval for new medical procedures? Want me to go on or do you care? For you and many others it is all about access and really has nothing to do with costs as long as someone else is paying for it and therein lies the problem

  8. #138
    Steve
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    bottom line---how do you control health care costs while massively expanding its enrollment?
    Don't have time or the inclination to respond to all of your post, but the above is curious.

    If I have a group of 100 people who want to buy health insurance, the cost per person will obviously be higher than what a group of 1,000 people would pay.
    Do not write in this space!

  9. #139
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If the government instead raised taxes across the board, then offered a tax credit for those who had insurance, would you still think it was illegal? It would have exactly the same economic impact.
    Thats not what was done. I think a large part of the resentment against obamacare is the way it was forced on us against the will of the people. This is a representative republic, not a dictatorship.
    And no, because, then it would not be a mandate to buy something you did not want. But again, thats not what was done, now is it?

  10. #140
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    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post

    few care what you do or don't have problems with

    As long as I care, that's plenty.
    Do not write in this space!

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