Page 12 of 125 FirstFirst ... 210111213142262112 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 1250

Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

  1. #111
    Steve
    tryreading's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Last Seen
    02-26-13 @ 07:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    4,809

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Except the first SS recipients didnt have to wait 6 decades to start collecting.....hence the ponzi scheme.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Not the point. The point is social security seems to be legal because it has existed for over 70 years. It is mandatory that earners pay into it. That seems to me to be legal precedent for mandatory payment into national health insurance.
    Do not write in this space!

  2. #112
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    melbourne florida
    Last Seen
    09-24-15 @ 12:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,156

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If you want A) an end to preexisting conditions, and B) the continued existence of a private insurance industry, then you'll need some mechanism to keep healthy people in the insurance pool. Otherwise, they'll be inclined to wait until they get sick to sign up, thus driving up the costs, thus encouraging more healthy people to drop coverage, thus driving up costs more, ad infinitum, until no one can afford insurance and no one is covered by insurance.
    No one can afford it now with the threat of Obamacare. My private health insurance went up 30% to almost $800 a month

  3. #113
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,296

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Kandahar;1059256845]From an economic standpoint, you'd still have the free rider problem if you did it at the state level, just like you would if you didn't require healthy people to buy insurance. Suppose that one state decides to cover all its residents...so you wait until you get sick, then you move to that state to take advantage of the coverage. This drives up the cost of insurance, which discourages healthy people from moving to that state, which further drives up the cost of insurance, etc. It's just a slightly less exaggerated version of the same problem associated with trying to end preexisting conditions without an individual mandate
    .

    But that then is a state and local issue where it belongs. States have the right with citizen approval to implement a healthcare program but the Federal Govt. doesn't. The American people by a large majority are not in favor of this bill and rightly so.

    Do you even know how many people there are in this country that really cannot afford healthcare coverage? It isn't what you think. Are you covered by a healthcare policy?

    From a logistical standpoint, the biggest reason to do it at the federal level is simply because it's less of a pain in the ass to have one standard than to have 50 standards. You may discount this as unimportant, but a sizable fraction of all health care spending goes to pushing paper and bureaucratic compliance with various government agencies and insurance companies. Consolidating it all in one place can reduce these costs.
    There is nothing that the govt. does that reduces costs so why is this different. We have a 14.1 trillion dollar debt because of that effecient govt. and now you want to expand it? There isn't a healthcare system in the world that has lowered healthcare costs. Liberal arrogance however says they can do it here. Liberals have never been right on any issue.

  4. #114
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    But regarding tort reform, $54 billion over ten years is nothing considering the total health care numbers, and will make no difference.
    tell it to the reagan wannabe

    I’m willing to look at other ideas to bring down costs, including one that Republicans suggested last year: medical malpractice reform to rein in frivolous lawsuits.
    Remarks of President Barack Obama in State of the Union Address -- As Prepared for Delivery | The White House

  5. #115
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    No one can afford it now with the threat of Obamacare. My private health insurance went up 30% to almost $800 a month
    Except I'm talking about EVERYONE...and I'm talking about ACTUALLY not being able to afford it (as in premiums that are thousands and thousands of dollars per year). Not complaining that you can't afford it, then paying the bill. You can't just ban preexisting conditions and expect everything else to stay the same. Economics does not work like that.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  6. #116
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    09-03-17 @ 09:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    314

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And how do you propose to implement that without an individual mandate? If sick people and healthy people both have access to the same coverage at the same price, the healthy people are more likely to wait until they get sick before they sign up for health insurance. In effect, this means that the health insurance pools at any given point in time will be dominated by the oldest and sickest people, thus driving up the premiums for everyone and encouraging even more young/healthy people to free ride. The end result will be premiums so expensive that no one can afford them, and the collapse of private health insurance.

    The only way to prevent that from happening is to have some external force preventing healthy people from going without insurance...hence the individual mandate. I know of no way that makes economical sense to 1) end preexisting conditions, 2) have a private health insurance industry, and 3) not have an individual mandate. You can pick any two of the them, but you can't have all three.

    That's why I think the Republicans are swimming in dangerous waters with their court challenges if they favor a free-market approach to health care. If ultimately the Supreme Court strikes down the individual mandate but not the rest of the bill (in other words, if the Supreme Court picks options 1 and 3 above) then we will cease to have option 2. The result would be a government takeover of the entire health insurance industry.
    You have a well thought out and possibly plausible argument here, BUT, you are forgetting that we live in the United States and that we have a constitution, that is the basis of our laws. And this constitution limits the powers of the gov't. And they have overstepped their authority here. Thus the whole issue.

  7. #117
    Sage
    ksu_aviator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    6,692
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    This was not a surprise. It'll be appealed.
    Its not a suprise because everyone knew it was unconstitutional. The appeal will lose too.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  8. #118
    Sleeper Agent
    iamitter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NY, NY
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 01:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    1,836

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Not the point. The point is social security seems to be legal because it has existed for over 70 years. It is mandatory that earners pay into it. That seems to me to be legal precedent for mandatory payment into national health insurance.
    'seems to be legal because it has existed for x years' is a very poor argument. There's much better ways to argue the health care bill than this.

    The only reason SS is still here is because its very popular, not because its constitutional.

  9. #119
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    09-03-17 @ 09:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    314

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If you want A) an end to preexisting conditions, and B) the continued existence of a private insurance industry, then you'll need some mechanism to keep healthy people in the insurance pool. Otherwise, they'll be inclined to wait until they get sick to sign up, thus driving up the costs, thus encouraging more healthy people to drop coverage, thus driving up costs more, ad infinitum, until no one can afford insurance and no one is covered by insurance.
    Then all you have to do is move to a country where that is legal.

  10. #120
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    09-03-17 @ 09:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    314

    Re: Obamacare Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    From an economic standpoint, you'd still have the free rider problem if you did it at the state level, just like you would if you didn't require healthy people to buy insurance. Suppose that one state decides to cover all its residents...so you wait until you get sick, then you move to that state to take advantage of the coverage. This drives up the cost of insurance, which discourages healthy people from moving to that state, which further drives up the cost of insurance, etc. It's just a slightly less exaggerated version of the same problem associated with trying to end preexisting conditions without an individual mandate.

    From a logistical standpoint, the biggest reason to do it at the federal level is simply because it's less of a pain in the ass to have one standard than to have 50 standards. You may discount this as unimportant, but a sizable fraction of all health care spending goes to pushing paper and bureaucratic compliance with various government agencies and insurance companies. Consolidating it all in one place can reduce these costs.
    Still missing the point, the federal gov't does not have the authority to do this. As they say, it really is that simple.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •