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Thread: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    B-B-C BOMBSHELL:

    today:

    BBC News - Surgeons raise alarm over waiting
    Surgeons say patients in some parts of England have spent months waiting in pain because of delayed operations or new restrictions on who qualifies for treatment. In several areas routine surgery was put on hold for months, while in many others new thresholds for hip and knee replacements have been introduced. The moves are part of the NHS drive to find 20bn efficiency savings by 2015. The government said performance should be measured by outcomes not numbers.

    Surgeons have described the delays faced by patients as "devastating and cruel". Peter Kay, the president of the British Orthopaedic Association (BOA), says they've become increasingly frustrated that hip and knee replacements are being targeted as a way of finding savings. GPs were told not so send as many patients to hospital, maybe to delay referrals until the end of the financial year while perhaps introducing thresholds for surgery.

    Overall, 692 surgeons in England sent the BBC information about the policy on hip and knee replacement of their local Primary Care Trust (PCT). Between them they covered the majority of PCTs in England. 106 surgeons told the BBC routine operations had been put on hold in their area. Others described new limits on when patients qualify for hip or knee replacements. 152 specialists said patients now have to be more disabled or in greater pain, and 118 told us hip and knee surgery had been regarded as a procedure of low priority.

    A number of PCTs have been explicit about their decisions to put all routine operations on hold for several months up to April to help balance their budgets by the end of the financial year. They include Warrington, Sheffield, Eastern and Coastal Kent, Bury and Warwickshire. Alex Waring, a patient in Warwickshire, was told he was being referred for an urgent knee replacement in August of last year. Now he looks at that letter with bewilderment as more than seven months later he is still waiting for surgery. Mr Waring has already had one successful knee replacement and says he is in daily pain waiting for this second operation. "It's excruciating sometimes to put it mildly. And it affects you at the times when you're not expecting it. I get off my mobile scooter and nearly fall over because my knee is gone, the pain, you've to sit there until the pain just goes away."

    Putting routine operations on hold means that GPs simply stop referring their patients for surgery. So although a patient might be waiting longer, this isn't recorded in the official waiting statistics. Another way of adding invisible waiting time into the system is to implement stricter new criteria which have the effect of delaying the point when a patient can be referred for treatment. An investigation by the BBC also found evidence in many PCT board papers of new thresholds being added for hip and knee replacements.


    rationing, anyone?

    govt run health care?

    remember donald berwick, obama's health czar?

    he's an open proponent of the nhs, favors rationing, and sees health care as a means of "redistribution," which is only "just, equitable, civilized and humane"

    YouTube - Donald Berwick on Redistributing Wealth
    You must have made all that up. Obama and Pelosi said this type of system would be awesome! They wouldn't lie to me.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    The Boo two step....
    You're being quite dishonest here. Do you want to discuss or avoid? You have not answered the question and are not discussing anything. I can only conclude you really don't know the answer to the question because you don't understand what you posted.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    You must have made all that up. Obama and Pelosi said this type of system would be awesome! They wouldn't lie to me.
    What makes you think we would ahve the exact system, ever? As there are several ways to do a single payer system, wouldn't you want to make a direct comparison with one that is exactly like the one we adopt?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    wouldn't you want to make a direct comparison with one that is exactly like the one we adopt?
    the one we adopt?

    we aint adopting no SINGLE PAYER anywhere round these parts

    have you MET mr boehner

    obamacare's IT, baby, the entire WAD

    meanwhile, the MODEL single payer plan on planet earth, according to the B-B-C:

    "months waiting in pain"

    "devastating and cruel"

    "delayed operations"

    "restrictions on who qualifies"

    TWENTY BILLION POUNDS UNDERWATER

    "delay references UNTIL THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR"

    "introduce thresholds for surgery"

    "patients now have to be more disabled or in greater pain" to beggar treatment

    hips and knees suddenly "regarded as a practice of low priority"

    "putting routine operations on hold MEANS THAT GP'S STOP REFERRING PATIENTS FOR SURGERY, so although a patient might be waiting longer THIS ISN'T RECORDED IN THE OFFICIAL STATISTICS"

    in other words, the SUFFERING is significantly GREATER than even B-B-C's numbers show

    the british broadcasting corp calls these delayed referrals part of the "INVISIBLE WAIT TIME"

    not good

    deal with it

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    I don't know what might stop it, but my point was there is astronomical waste and fraud in the private medical system that exists now. You seemed to say that that would be more of an issue with a public insurance system. I don't know. Yes, there is always waste in a government bureaucracy, but the current system is so expensive that it may be unsustainable at some point. For a lot of people, it already is.
    So what about medicare and medicaid? Obama care will be more of the same no change just more government control and more taxes and more corruption and fraud

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What makes you think we would ahve the exact system, ever? As there are several ways to do a single payer system, wouldn't you want to make a direct comparison with one that is exactly like the one we adopt?
    We will have Obamacare death panels

    YouTube - Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Dance on Boo.

    You do know what "projection" is...don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're being quite dishonest here. Do you want to discuss or avoid? You have not answered the question and are not discussing anything. I can only conclude you really don't know the answer to the question because you don't understand what you posted.
    Obama is NOT 50 feet tall, he is ONE inch deep.
    Mark Levin

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Dance on Boo.

    You do know what "projection" is...don't you?
    I'm about done wasting time with you, but you are more likely the one projecting. Either answer the question or admit you can't and don't really want to discuss, or are not capable of rational discussion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    I can help Boo, can you tell me what happens when ANY of the changes this part of the Bill outlines happens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    You gave the White House white wash

    Sorry....

    Chew on this for a bit, I don't expect you to be able to discuss a word of it

    SEC. 202. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

    (a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

    (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-

    (A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

    (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.


    dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

    (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

    (3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
    Obama is NOT 50 feet tall, he is ONE inch deep.
    Mark Levin

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    Re: Obama Health-Care Reform Act Ruled Unconstitutional(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    We will have Obamacare death panels

    YouTube - Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill
    Are you having a comprehension problem with this? Nothing here suggest a death panel.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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