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Thread: White House to Push Gun Control

  1. #351
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Bearing arms is a universal human right. The government of Illinois has no more right banning citizens from owning and carrying weapons than does the federal government.
    if a city wants to get together and decide a different way to protect themselves i won't begrudge them that right. doesn't mean i'd wanna live there.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

  2. #352
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    wow, so many views on gun laws. wouldn't it be amazing if each locality could come up with their own laws and weren't dictated to by a larger bureaucracy.
    States, counties and cities are required to respect my Constitutional right to free speech, freedom of religion, right to be secure in my person and papers from unreasonable search, etc etc.... the 2A should recieve similar respect and not be infringed by any branch or division of any government within the United States.


    Besides, travelling as a pistol-packer is hard enough already.

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  3. #353
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    if a city wants to get together and decide a different way to protect themselves i won't begrudge them that right. doesn't mean i'd wanna live there.
    I'm just not that big a fan of democracy.

  4. #354
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The UK has a far higher violent crime rate then the USA. Why is that? Could it be the Citizens of the UK are unable to defend themselves?
    No, it doesn't. Show me one statistic that says that.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) I have problems with non citizens whining about our freedom
    2) your silly nonsense that a gun law is going to change the crime rate is contradicted by facts
    3) why has English rates of violent crime increased as they have banned guns while our rates have decreased as we have increased gun ownership
    4) If you factor out gun crime perpetrated by inner city black drug abusers, our gun rate crime is lower than whites in Europe and England. IN other words, a minority skews the statistics.

    5) you prove you are completely clueless about America when you void crap like "unrestricted gun sales"
    Alright then:

    1) This isn't AmericanDebatePolitics, so my opinion is as worthy as yours on the matter. Furthermore, it's basely xenophobic to disregard a foreigner's opinion on how to fix your nation, when it might just be, in fact, that a foreigner's viewpoint will bring the solutions that are readily unapparent in America.

    2) I would like you to show me these facts claiming to contradict my less guns = less gun crime theory. Because I've already shown you facts proving my point. The burden of proof is on you to overturn my evidence.

    3) Violent crime has increased since the gun ban in the 90's about 4%. The amount of murders there are in a year, EVEN EXCLUDING GUN RELATED MURDERS IN BOTH COUNTRIES, is still an order of magnitude higher in the States than in the UK. Then you get to add on the 11,000 violent gun crimes a year in the States, and you can see how ridiculous your claim was

    4) You're wrong, and I'll explain it to you with very, very simply math, so that it just might take root in your head. Fact One: There are 11,000 violent gun crimes in the US per year. Fact Two: There are on average about 70 in the UK per year. Fact Three: Whites make up about 80% of the US population, with blacks making up about 10% of the population. What this means is, you are attributing in excess of 10,930 gun crimes per year to a demographic that is A) Quickly moving into the middle class, and B) 1/8th the population of whites in America. To me, that just sounds like racist, fearmongering bull****e.

    5) I'm really not all that clueless about America, as I just proved you wrong on all five of your points, didn't I?

  6. #356
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Alright then:

    1) This isn't AmericanDebatePolitics, so my opinion is as worthy as yours on the matter. Furthermore, it's basely xenophobic to disregard a foreigner's opinion on how to fix your nation, when it might just be, in fact, that a foreigner's viewpoint will bring the solutions that are readily unapparent in America.

    2) I would like you to show me these facts claiming to contradict my less guns = less gun crime theory. Because I've already shown you facts proving my point. The burden of proof is on you to overturn my evidence.

    3) Violent crime has increased since the gun ban in the 90's about 4%. The amount of murders there are in a year, EVEN EXCLUDING GUN RELATED MURDERS IN BOTH COUNTRIES, is still an order of magnitude higher in the States than in the UK. Then you get to add on the 11,000 violent gun crimes a year in the States, and you can see how ridiculous your claim was

    4) You're wrong, and I'll explain it to you with very, very simply math, so that it just might take root in your head. Fact One: There are 11,000 violent gun crimes in the US per year. Fact Two: There are on average about 70 in the UK per year. Fact Three: Whites make up about 80% of the US population, with blacks making up about 10% of the population. What this means is, you are attributing in excess of 10,930 gun crimes per year to a demographic that is A) Quickly moving into the middle class, and B) 1/8th the population of whites in America. To me, that just sounds like racist, fearmongering bull****e.

    5) I'm really not all that clueless about America, as I just proved you wrong on all five of your points, didn't I?
    1) no your opinion matters not to me since you are a subject who has been disarmed by your government. i understand the teachings of Aesop's fable about the fox that lost its tail or -more appropriately a bull that has become a steer and how misery enjoys company. that you revel in being disarmed is your problem but you can never make an argument that freedom is not worth its costs

    2) the problem is that you cannot make an argument when we have one society that castrated its citizens for decades or centuries and thus never had many arms vs one where it was a birthright since our founding. the fact is you cannot try to impose the mentality of sheep on a nation of sheep dogs. So trying to impose the mindset of the castrati on us is just plain silly and trying to ban guns or severely regulate them in a society that has at least 300 million guns is just plain stupid

    furthermore our rate of gun violence is very low for the majority of our citizens--white americans and asian americans have a lower rate of gun violence than whites living in continental europe or England. black drug trade is the cause of most gun violence in the USA-for example in a two year period, my home city which is 43% black had about 110 murders-every one of them was perpetrated by a black male.


    3) our rate of gun crime has decreased in the 17 year period after clinton tried to restrict gun sales which in reality caused massive increases in gun ownerhip. being an expert on guns, I was getting dozens of calls from people who owned NO GUNS prior to the Clinton regime asking me what sort of guns to buy. Clinton's idiocy caused millions upon millions of guns to be sold and at least 50 million normal capacity (ie over 10 rounds) magazines to be made that would not have been made in reaction to his 'assault weapon ban'

    4) a joint interpol/FBI study released in 1999 and widely distributed to US law enforcement agencies and later reported in National Review confirmed the fact that white americans have less violent crime per capita than their counterparts in Europe

    5) even if you could prove that our freedom causes more crime you still cannot win the argument since many of us value freedom more than government attempts to make us safe by disarming us

    you have only one arrow in your quiver-that gun laws or bans would make us safer which you cannot prove will even work in our nation and the experiences of places like Chicago and DC suggest you are wrong but we have many arguments on our side that do not require a speculative belief that gun restrictions will make us safer

    in other words, unless you can prove that euro style nanny castration would make us noticeably safer you completely fail yet even if you can establish your argument you have not won since there are many good reasons to be an armed citizens EVEN IF IT MAKES US LESS SAFE due to crime.



  7. #357
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Here we go Obama playing politics and using a tragedy to forward his agenda
    .
    Iin all countries Communists had firstly prohibited the guns by citizens, secondly they transformed their countries to prisons.
    Rom 6:23:For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

  8. #358
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfons View Post
    Iin all countries Communists had firstly prohibited the guns by citizens, secondly they transformed their countries to prisons.
    Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. The U.S. incarceration rate on June 30, 2009 was 748 inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents, or 0.75%. The USA also has the highest total documented prison and jail population in the world.

  9. #359
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Alright then:

    1) This isn't AmericanDebatePolitics, so my opinion is as worthy as yours on the matter. Furthermore, it's basely xenophobic to disregard a foreigner's opinion on how to fix your nation, when it might just be, in fact, that a foreigner's viewpoint will bring the solutions that are readily unapparent in America.

    2) I would like you to show me these facts claiming to contradict my less guns = less gun crime theory. Because I've already shown you facts proving my point. The burden of proof is on you to overturn my evidence.

    3) Violent crime has increased since the gun ban in the 90's about 4%. The amount of murders there are in a year, EVEN EXCLUDING GUN RELATED MURDERS IN BOTH COUNTRIES, is still an order of magnitude higher in the States than in the UK. Then you get to add on the 11,000 violent gun crimes a year in the States, and you can see how ridiculous your claim was

    4) You're wrong, and I'll explain it to you with very, very simply math, so that it just might take root in your head. Fact One: There are 11,000 violent gun crimes in the US per year. Fact Two: There are on average about 70 in the UK per year. Fact Three: Whites make up about 80% of the US population, with blacks making up about 10% of the population. What this means is, you are attributing in excess of 10,930 gun crimes per year to a demographic that is A) Quickly moving into the middle class, and B) 1/8th the population of whites in America. To me, that just sounds like racist, fearmongering bull****e.

    5) I'm really not all that clueless about America, as I just proved you wrong on all five of your points, didn't I?
    Here in America we love are freedoms and are rights.

  10. #360
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Alright then:

    1) This isn't AmericanDebatePolitics, so my opinion is as worthy as yours on the matter. Furthermore, it's basely xenophobic to disregard a foreigner's opinion on how to fix your nation, when it might just be, in fact, that a foreigner's viewpoint will bring the solutions that are readily unapparent in America.
    Spoken like a true decendant of King George III. I believe this issue was sorted by a Mr. Isaiah Thomas, July 14th, 1776 in Worchester Mass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    2) I would like you to show me these facts claiming to contradict my less guns = less gun crime theory. Because I've already shown you facts proving my point. The burden of proof is on you to overturn my evidence.
    It's been done dozens of times on these an other forum boards. Use the search function.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    3) Violent crime has increased since the gun ban in the 90's about 4%.
    Well. There you go.


    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    4) You're wrong, and I'll explain it to you with very, very simply math, so that it just might take root in your head. Fact One: There are 11,000 violent gun crimes in the US per year.
    Yes. We're a relatively big country compared to the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Fact Two: There are on average about 70 in the UK per year.
    Yes, the UK is a relatively small country compared to the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Fact Three: Whites make up about 80% of the US population, with blacks making up about 10% of the population. What this means is, you are attributing in excess of 10,930 gun crimes per year to a demographic that is A) Quickly moving into the middle class, and B) 1/8th the population of whites in America. To me, that just sounds like racist, fearmongering bull****e.
    Is it still racist if it's true?

    Study: Almost Half of Murder Victims Black - washingtonpost.com

    (Page 2 of 19) - African Americans and Crime: A Residential Segregation Explanation authored by Ortiz, Juanita. and McGhee, Meghan.


    Sure there are those who say the justice system is biased against blacks - and there is some individual cases that have proven this. It has not however, a nation wide issue with the justice department nor with the laws of which the justice systems uses, in every jurisdiction, in ever county, in every state ... you want to call it racist? Fine. But the black community even acknowledges it.

    Bill Cosby Scorches Black Culture and Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    5) I'm really not all that clueless about America, as I just proved you wrong on all five of your points, didn't I?
    Actually you didn't. You know about as much of America as I do of England. I know you call potato chips "crisps", I know you like your comedy and private schools, I know you have a parliamentary system and various other trivialities. I have never lived in England, never understood the nuances of it's society and never experienced them. Therefore, you vomit snippets of news and culture you read and hear on the tele. Don't insult my or anyone else's intelligence by claiming you know America. It's very embarrassing.
    Last edited by Ockham; 01-30-11 at 10:10 AM.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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