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Thread: White House to Push Gun Control

  1. #311
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Out of all the mental issues you orginally cited you stuck with just anxiety attacks? Me thinks you realized you didn't have a good argument for the rest.

    BTW being an Army brat, and a veteran myself, and father that dealt with PTSD for years after coming back from Vietnam, I can assure you veterans already have guns at home. So it's mute issue about shopping for guns which is what I was discussing.

    I apologize if you thought I made personal attacks but your arguments hit a sore spot with me.

    So then denying someone the right to buy a gun, based on being a vet with PTSD, would accomplish what? If they already have guns as you stated. You're practically making my point for me...

    If someone had an episode of depression twenty years ago, was treated with meds and declared ok after six months, would you deny them 2A rights still?

    How will you get all this info? Will we have a database with everyone's psyche profile up in Washington DC?

    Who will judge who is sane enough to exercise a Constitutional right? Their own shrink? A panel of Government-employed shrinks? Slippery slope anyone?


    The point I'm trying to make is this is a more complex issue than some want to paint it, and that there are implications and unintended consequences galore for going very far down this path.

    As I said though, I'm all for adding "involuntarily committed" as a red flag on NICS. I don't think it will help very much at all, but since it would be minimally intrusive to 2A rights I'd be okay with it.

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  2. #312
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I'll be damned if someone tries to tell me I can't own a fully automatic AK-47!!! It's what the founding fathers intended, for us all to own the biggest and baddest weapons available.
    Yeah like they even had automatic weapons back then. Hell we didn't even get the repeating rifle until the Civil war didn't we?

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Now, I will accept one of your corrections. I said that had the magazine ban existed he would not have been able to get one. You are correct that banning something does not prevent possession. I misspoke and should have been more precise in my assertion. The correct assertion should have been that with the ban, it would have been far more difficult to get the extended magazine. ... Given that he made a retail purchase of his gun and ammo, it is unlikely he would have had the extended clip, or more precisely, it is certainly less likely.
    Extended mags were "banned" during the Clinton-era AWB. I bought several during that ban.



    As to your argument of incrementalism, this is a tired and rather juvenile NRA position.... if we give one inch, they will take everything. That approach is unreasonable at every level. Some things require fixing, and to fix those things more often results in fortifying one's position, not weakening it.
    There isn't a legislative fix for everything. There isn't one which would likely have stopped this massacre or mitigated it to any significant degree. In the absence of extended magazines, he could have brought more 10-rounders. In the absense of a handgun, he could have used a sawn-off pump shotgun. To infringe on a fundamental right, the infringement must be necessary, effective, and not infringe on the law-abiding more than on the criminal, at a minimum.

    Most of the suggestions that have been made regarding this incident would be extremely intrusive and have far-reaching consequences, like involving government in your mental health care.

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  4. #314
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    If you're crazy hell yeah.
    Who gets to say whose crazy and who isn't? What if a citizen, who has never broken a law before, fails his psycho-babble analysis? What if one of the people doing the psyhco-babble thinks that no one should own a gun and fails every person they analize?

    There's no way to do something like this and it be fair and sure as hell no way to do and it be constitutional.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I'll be damned if someone tries to tell me I can't own a fully automatic AK-47!!! It's what the founding fathers intended, for us all to own the biggest and baddest weapons available.
    It's not illegal to own an automatic weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #316
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Who gets to say whose crazy and who isn't? What if a citizen, who has never broken a law before, fails his psycho-babble analysis? What if one of the people doing the psyhco-babble thinks that no one should own a gun and fails every person they analize?

    There's no way to do something like this and it be fair and sure as hell no way to do and it be constitutional.
    I concur. Revoking a citizen's civil rights because his is a criminal is one thing but revoking a law-abiding citizen's civil rights because of the content of his thoughts is quite another.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    So then denying someone the right to buy a gun, based on being a vet with PTSD, would accomplish what? If they already have guns as you stated. You're practically making my point for me...

    If someone had an episode of depression twenty years ago, was treated with meds and declared ok after six months, would you deny them 2A rights still?

    How will you get all this info? Will we have a database with everyone's psyche profile up in Washington DC?

    Who will judge who is sane enough to exercise a Constitutional right? Their own shrink? A panel of Government-employed shrinks? Slippery slope anyone?


    The point I'm trying to make is this is a more complex issue than some want to paint it, and that there are implications and unintended consequences galore for going very far down this path.

    As I said though, I'm all for adding "involuntarily committed" as a red flag on NICS. I don't think it will help very much at all, but since it would be minimally intrusive to 2A rights I'd be okay with it.
    Well if you can show me where I specifically said PTSD disqualifies one to OWN a firearm I'll stand corrected. It wouldn't fly anyway because we'd have to disquality thousands of active duty members.

  8. #318
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's not illegal to own an automatic weapon.

    Class III license. But regardless, full-auto weapons are so very rarely used in actual crimes that the point is moot.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Yeah like they even had automatic weapons back then. Hell we didn't even get the repeating rifle until the Civil war didn't we?
    By that logic, only flintlock muzzleloaders should be legal.

    I know you're probably thinking, "good!". But, think about all the loose black powder that would be available to fire those weapons. A 1 pound can of black powder can be created into some really nasty toys.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Who gets to say whose crazy and who isn't? What if a citizen, who has never broken a law before, fails his psycho-babble analysis? What if one of the people doing the psyhco-babble thinks that no one should own a gun and fails every person they analize?

    There's no way to do something like this and it be fair and sure as hell no way to do and it be constitutional.

    I already went through this with character references but since you ignored it I won't waste my time repeating it.

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