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Thread: White House to Push Gun Control

  1. #291
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Oh I don't know... maybe it's because we are so lax in this country and we have the highest murder rate in the world with guns that are as common as candy? Just a thought.
    So every time someone commits a crime with a gun you want to infringe my on 2nd Amendment rights?
    Last edited by cpgrad08; 01-29-11 at 11:34 AM.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    we have the highest murder rate in the world with guns that are as common as candy?
    Citation needed.

    (I think you meant to say "among developed countries." Big difference.)

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, we don't all believe in gun control. I don't believe in gun control.

    Ah, so you're a member of Guns 4 Tots, then?

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Oh I don't know... maybe it's because we are so lax in this country and we have the highest murder rate in the world with guns that are as common as candy? Just a thought.
    You are in error... by a very large margin.


    Country.........Murder rate
    El Salvador 71
    Honduras 67
    Jamaica 59.5
    Venezuela 49
    Columbia 35
    South Africa 34
    ........................
    Mexico 15
    Lithuania 8.3
    Moldova 7.2
    Estonia 7.02
    Belarus 5.6
    ...........
    United States 5.0

    List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    MANY nations have much higher murder rates than we do. MOST of them have stricter gun control laws than we do.

    It is cultural and economic, primarily.
    Last edited by Goshin; 01-29-11 at 11:41 AM.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Ah, so you're a member of Guns 4 Tots, then?
    Sure. I think that kids should learn firearms safety at an early age. It would probably cut down on children accidentally killing themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    I think I've asked this question two or three times in this thread, and still no one has tried to answer it that I know of.

    Where do we draw the line, in terms of mental illness?

    Anxiety attacks?

    A single episode of Depression? Two?

    Vets with PTSD?

    If you've voluntarily committed yourself ever? If you've ever been to rehab, even twenty yrs ago?

    No matter where you draw the line, you won't stop them all. Some will go untreated... especially if they know that seeking treatement might cause them to lose a fundamental right.

    How many neighbors have to consider you "creepy" or "odd" before you lose a fundamental right enumerated in the BoR? One? Two?

    And then there's still the question of the black market.

    Face it, there is no legislative fix that would have stood much chance of keeping this Congresswoman from getting shot.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Sure. I think that kids should learn firearms safety at an early age. It would probably cut down on children accidentally killing themselves.
    How early is early? Unless you're placing a gun in the hands of a newborn baby without the safety on then you believe in some form of gun control.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I think I've asked this question two or three times in this thread, and still no one has tried to answer it that I know of.

    Where do we draw the line, in terms of mental illness?

    Anxiety attacks?

    A single episode of Depression? Two?

    Vets with PTSD?

    If you've voluntarily committed yourself ever? If you've ever been to rehab, even twenty yrs ago?

    No matter where you draw the line, you won't stop them all. Some will go untreated... especially if they know that seeking treatement might cause them to lose a fundamental right.

    How many neighbors have to consider you "creepy" or "odd" before you lose a fundamental right enumerated in the BoR? One? Two?

    And then there's still the question of the black market.

    Face it, there is no legislative fix that would have stood much chance of keeping this Congresswoman from getting shot.
    My concern, is how is being diagnosed with a mental illness going to effect other aspects of a person's life.

    I'm a gun buyer. I get diagnosed with a mental problem and can't buy a gun. I'm also have a commercial driver's license. I have a hazmat endorsement and have to undergo an FBI background check to renew that endorsement. Now, I have on my record that I'm a head case. What then? I see alotta unintended conciquences with these proposed mental evaluations. Not to mention the huge question of constitutionality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    How early is early? Unless you're placing a gun in the hands of a newborn baby without the safety on then you believe in some form of gun control.
    I'll go along with this rediculous, "what if", and say that I believe we should let babies sleep with a gun in their crib, to get used to being around it. Unloaded, of course, until they're capable of loading and unloading it themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #300
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yes, well thank you for being so fair and reasonable in your description of those who uphold the Bill of Rights.

    Anytime. I guess my opinion that it shouldn't be easy for crazy's to easily get their hands on firearms isn't fair or reasonable. So be it. No apologies here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    We can save 40,000 lives a year by banning cars...but nobody wants to, because we like cars. Yet, cars are not a Constitutional right. Guns are.

    Don't be silly. We need cars for our society to function on a daily basis. We don't need guns for it to function. Cars aren't normally used as a murder weapon and as easily. And we do try and stop people from getting behind the wheel if we believe they are a threat. Your argument is just as dumb as making light of the murders at the WTC, or our troop death numbers in Iraq because more people get killed annually in car accidents. As far as firearms being a constitutional right, that's debatable as to what you feel the framers meant by the right to bear arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You can't infringe on a fundamental right without proving that it is necessary, and useful, and that the infringement would impact the criminal moreso than the law-abiding.

    I proved you wrong my above post but you blindly ignored it. Nice going.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Given the easy availability of guns on the black market, that proof will be hard to substantiate.

    I don't necessarily see mentally unstable people knowing where to go to get a gun in the black market, but of course there will be some, but not all. If they are not easily available over the counter to them, I see most of them going to family members and friends. If the family members and friends clearly know they are culpable they would think twice about giving or selling them a firearm, or signing off they are mentally stable when they are not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Most dealers wouldn't sell a gun to someone they thought was going to commit murder NOW. That would make them accessories...

    Again I proved you wrong in my above post over again and again. Once again you ignored factual evidence. I did notice one Walmart refused to sell a ****load of ammo to Loughner while another had no problem. How responsible do you think a Walmart clerk that get's called over from the garden section, and is behind in her stocking of the shelves is going to be? I'll bet you a hell of a lot of ammo and firearms are sold through Walmart. In fact I know they are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I've said, practically anyone can get three people to sign off on "he's a Jolly Good Fellow". Especially if they are not. (It's called Intimidation.)

    If they do they're dead meat and I have no pity for them. I have a couple of relatives that have mental issues. I'd have to be ****ing moron to sign off for a firearm that they are a "Jolly good Fellow." Furthermore the intimidation argument is over done. Again a few cases but not enough to say it would be a common issue. You're grasping for straws to make your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'm all for red-flagging (in NICS) someone who's been involuntarily committed... I think we do that already. If we don't, I agree that we should start.
    Well blow me down! We don't btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    But where do we draw the line, regarding "mental illness" as barring someone from certain Constitutionally enumerated fundamental rights? Anxiety attacks? One episode of depression? Two? Vets with PTSD?
    All are potentially dangerous situations. No one in any of those categories has any business gun shopping. If I had a family member that had depression or suicide issues I'd have to be really cold to allow them to go out a buy a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    How many people would avoid seeking help for mental illness if they knew they would lose fundamental rights by so doing?
    Most don't as it is for two reasons. It's the stigma issue and it's too ****ing expensive. Counseling and psychiatric help is outrageous in price just like the rest of the medical industry. Many insurance companies won't even pay for it, or pay only pay little of the cost. I took in a troubled teenager relative a few years back. My insurance wouldn't cover a dime. It had to come completely out of my pocket, and what we got wasn't worth the money IMHO. The rich can afford much better care.



    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Your opinion and personal anecdotes, or exceptions to the rule, don't change the facts.

    Personal anecdotes? I sited actual incidents and if you don't believe me that the guns were purchased legally look it up yourself. And now you're citing Wikipedia? Are you kidding me? Don't get me wrong Wikipedia has a lot of good points but I cite actually verifiable incidents and you counter with Wikipedia?

    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 01-29-11 at 12:09 PM.

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