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Thread: White House to Push Gun Control

  1. #281
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Sorry, but had the asualt weapon ban been continued, the shooter would not have been able to obtain the extended ammo clip. If he did not have that clip, he would have done less than half the damage he did. There is no rational reason for those clips to exist. It is reasonable to restrict them. Even Dick Cheney agrees with that.

    We all believe in gun control, we just disagree about where the control line should be drawn.


    Ah, yes, because the INSTANT something is made illegal, it becomes unavailable, right?

    Just like pot, crack, and meth aren't available on a street corner near you, without background checks or waiting periods.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by DontDoIt View Post
    You think tightening laws or even banning guns would stop people from accessing them if they wanted? Have you learned nothing from prohibition? It seems to be working pretty well with drugs right?
    Most of the mass shootings in the last few years including Columbine, Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois University, Arizona shootings, and now this were all guns bought legally by people with mental issues.

    Mom kills her two Teens



    ...NEW TAMPA, Fla. - Tampa Police have arrested a New Tampa mother after they say she shot her two teenage children to death Thursday night.

    Investigators say Julie Powers Schenecker, 50, shot and killed her children with a .38 caliber gun in their home...

    ...After being read her miranda rights, police say Schenecker admitted to purchasing the revolver last weekend, and said she planned to murder her children and then kill herself...


    Police say New Tampa mom shot her teen children to death

    We keep hearing the argument about tightening laws and people can still get guns but I keep seeing mentally ill people buying guns legally as easy as getting a license plate at the local license bureau. WTF is wrong with us? Why would we make it easy for nut jobs to buy lethal weapons?
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 01-29-11 at 11:00 AM.

  3. #283
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ah, yes, because the INSTANT something is made illegal, it becomes unavailable, right?

    Just like pot, crack, and meth aren't available on a street corner near you, without background checks or waiting periods.
    Not in all cases. If we make it hard for people with mental issues to just waltz over and buy a gun over the counter and make anyone that sells them one culpable for their actions, it's LESS likely they will be able to get their hands on a firearm. If it saves even a few lifes I don't give a rat's ass about the amendment rights of a nut job.

    Would you willingly sell a firearm to someone you know has only one oar in the water knowing if they kill someone you are on the hook too?

    If someone wants to buy a firearm have them submit a character reference and have that character reference attest to the mental stability of that person knowing full well if they lie and something happens we're coming after them with the full force of the law.

    I know a conceal carry guy that wouldn't get a gun if that was the case. Tough ****. I wouldn't trust this guy walk my dog.
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 01-29-11 at 11:07 AM.

  4. #284
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Not in all cases. If we make it hard for people with mental issues to just waltz over and buy a gun over the counter and make anyone that sells them one culpable for their actions, it's LESS likely they will be able to get their hands on a firearm. If it saves even a few lifes I don't give a rat's ass about the amendment rights of a nut job.
    I see Goshin's point --- the mentally ill person will simply seek to gain access to a gun from illegal sources, but to your point, they may not know where those illegal sources are and will probably have a higher chance of getting caught trying to purchase illegally.

    Overall I think it's the right choice... flag them as mentally unstable and prevent them from purchasing legally. We cannot as a society, control illegal behavior. It'll happen no matter what. We have to focus on what we CAN control.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Not in all cases. If we make it hard for people with mental issues to just waltz over and buy a gun over the counter and make anyone that sells them one culpable for their actions, it's LESS likely they will be able to get their hands on a firearm. If it saves even a few lifes I don't give a rat's ass about the amendment rights of a nut job.
    Yes, well thank you for being so fair and reasonable in your description of those who uphold the Bill of Rights.

    We can save 40,000 lives a year by banning cars...but nobody wants to, because we like cars. Yet, cars are not a Constitutional right. Guns are.

    You can't infringe on a fundamental right without proving that it is necessary, and useful, and that the infringement would impact the criminal moreso than the law-abiding.
    Given the easy availability of guns on the black market, that proof will be hard to substantiate.


    Would you willingly sell a firearm to someone you know has only one oar in the water knowing if they kill someone you are on the hook too?
    Most dealers wouldn't sell a gun to someone they thought was going to commit murder NOW. That would make them accessories...


    If someone wants to buy a firearm have them submit a character reference and have that character reference attest to the mental stability of that person knowing full well if they lie and something happens we're coming after them with the full force of the law.
    As I've said, practically anyone can get three people to sign off on "he's a Jolly Good Fellow". Especially if they are not. (It's called Intimidation.)

    I'm all for red-flagging (in NICS) someone who's been involuntarily committed... I think we do that already. If we don't, I agree that we should start.

    But where do we draw the line, regarding "mental illness" as barring someone from certain Constitutionally enumerated fundamental rights? Anxiety attacks? One episode of depression? Two? Vets with PTSD?

    How many people would avoid seeking help for mental illness if they knew they would lose fundamental rights by so doing?

    It's not as simple as some of you are making it out to be.


    I know a conceal carry guy that wouldn't get a gun if that was the case. Tough ****. I wouldn't trust this guy walk my dog.
    Your opinion and personal anecdotes, or exceptions to the rule, don't change the facts.

    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    North Carolina reports only 0.2% of their 263,102 holders had their license revoked in the 10 years since they have adopted the law.[61]

    Permit holders are a remarkably law-abiding subclass of the population. Florida, which has issued over 1,408,907 permits in twenty one years, has revoked only 166 for a "crime after licensure involving a firearm," and fewer than 4,500 permits for any reason.[62]
    Last edited by Goshin; 01-29-11 at 11:20 AM.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    How come every time a crime with a gun is committed people start talking pushing tougher Gun laws?

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    How come every time a crime with a gun is committed people start talking pushing tougher Gun laws?
    Oh I don't know... maybe it's because we are so lax in this country and we have the highest murder rate in the world with guns that are as common as candy? Just a thought.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    How come every time a crime with a gun is committed people start talking pushing tougher Gun laws?

    Because some think that there is a legislative fix for human nature, or that banning an object will prevent a behavior.

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  9. #289
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    How come every time a crime with a gun is committed people start talking pushing tougher Gun laws?
    It's the same reason as when a crime gets committed by a terrorist people start blaming that terrorist's whole religion. Stupidity.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I doubt this particular issue will change natural events one way or another. Conservative distain for Obama grows each time he wakes up.
    It grows everytime he makes a stupid decision; this would be a point in case.

    Sorry, but had the asualt weapon ban been continued, the shooter would not have been able to obtain the extended ammo clip.
    Instead, he would have had two conventional magazines, with the same amount of ammo. Or, could have brought two pistols. Or, a shotgun; a shotgun could have ****ed some people up in that situation. He could have scored twice as many hits with a shotgun than he could have with a pistol.

    Basically, I don't know what you're expecting to prevent with all these bans.


    [/b]If he did not have that clip, he would have done less than half the damage he did.[/b] There is no rational reason for those clips to exist. It is reasonable to restrict them. Even Dick Cheney agrees with that.
    And, you would be ok with half as many casualties? That would make it less tragic?

    We all believe in gun control, we just disagree about where the control line should be drawn.
    No, we don't all believe in gun control. I don't believe in gun control.

    BTW, this is a magazine,




    This is a clip



    and this is a clip



    and no, they're not the same difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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