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Thread: White House to Push Gun Control

  1. #261
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    26 pages in, do we even know what the new 'push' is and why it's good or bad?
    A valid question.

    Much of the angst on the Right, and I think I'm correct on this is... Obama is a liberal, he's a big Gov't liberal. We don't trust his past record on guns, and don't trust him moving forward. But you are correct, until we see what he actually proposes, in writing, it's speculation.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    26 pages in, do we even know what the new 'push' is and why it's good or bad?
    More gun control laws are bad. Nothing to debate, there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, they would all just pull out and kill the offender. This gun craze is tiring. Protect the flag..."To Abort or Not to Abort".....isn't there an economy issue to deal with?
    Bread and circuses, bro. Bread and circuses.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    A valid question.

    Much of the angst on the Right, and I think I'm correct on this is... Obama is a liberal, he's a big Gov't liberal. We don't trust his past record on guns, and don't trust him moving forward. But you are correct, until we see what he actually proposes, in writing, it's speculation.
    Maybe we'll just have to pass the bill to find out what's in it, eh?
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    A valid question.

    Much of the angst on the Right, and I think I'm correct on this is... Obama is a liberal, he's a big Gov't liberal. We don't trust his past record on guns, and don't trust him moving forward. But you are correct, until we see what he actually proposes, in writing, it's speculation.
    Distrust is too often found on both sides. But, that shouldn't rule us too much.

    Moving forward, I will say this. I have no emotional attachment or fear of guns. They are tool and nothing more. The reasons for the 2nd amendment, as I understand it, had more to do with the need of a citizen army and the need to have them armed, not to mention that having one was much more important to everyday life than it is today. So, if done unemotionally, which I doubt can be done, a serious discussion as to what role weapons play today would be a valid issue to undertake.

    We won't mind you. it would be tough, difficult and, sadly, emotional. So we won't.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #266
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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Answer a question with a question...hmmm. Anyway, it is against the laws for "nuts" to own guns, but the only way to tell is if they check the I am crazy box on the application. Thus if we need new laws there Tex, I am all for it. I realize many right wingers are afraid of this for some of their zeal maybe misinterpreted as crazy.
    You kid but there is an element of truth to that. It is common for liberals and others who generally oppose conservatives to elevate their behavior to the level of crazy, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc., etc., when it is not. The hate speech mantra is ever present in liberal discourse. So yeah, at some level the right wingers are afraid about who will be doing the interpreting.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Distrust is too often found on both sides. But, that shouldn't rule us too much.

    Moving forward, I will say this. I have no emotional attachment or fear of guns. They are tool and nothing more. The reasons for the 2nd amendment, as I understand it, had more to do with the need of a citizen army and the need to have them armed, not to mention that having one was much more important to everyday life than it is today. So, if done unemotionally, which I doubt can be done, a serious discussion as to what role weapons play today would be a valid issue to undertake.
    Before such a discussion could be undertaken, many liberals (and others) would have to educate themselves on the subject of where guns come from, and how criminals get access to them. The issue is not having too many guns in the U.S. Most of those guns are in the hands of people who are responsible with them and store them properly. The issue is having too many ILLEGAL guns in the U.S.

    I've found that a lot of liberals have an almost visceral reaction to the sight of a gun on someone's person. I've run gang training for years, and I've had people attending a conference I planned become very offended because police officers in attendance were visible armed with sidearms. Many jurisdictions have rules about carrying sidearms. Cops don't carry guns like this to offend people from schools and social services. They are required to do so, and they are required to do so in specific ways.

    I would say that, in general, conservatives understand the relevant issues in the topic of gun control better than the average liberal, because it's a matter of significant importance to them and they've researched the issue. Sportsmen, hunters, cops, military personnel, people who regularly handle guns are much more likely to be conservative than liberal, and they have reasons for their positions.

    I'm not a liberal or a conservative really, I go back and forth depending on the issue. But, based on my exposure to guns/crime/criminals, and based upon the training I've received, I'm very conservative on the 2nd amendment. It's hard to debate and discuss a topic with people who don't have the same basic level of understanding of the subject.

    I don't say that to be dismissive, it's just something that often occurs on these boards. Not all opinions are created equal.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Having said all of the above, though, I've found the pantywaisted and over the top responses to this thread by conservatives to be pretty hilarious.

    NO ONE has the clout, at present, to get further gun control legislation through congress. Such measures, in spite of what happened to Congresswoman Gifford, do not have sufficient support from both parties. They're widely dismissed by conservatives and even many liberals won't vote for them.

    So, the hand-wringing, at this point in time, is pretty heavy-handed and ham-fisted. It sort of resembles the response of hardcore pro-abortionists to anything that might even potentially (no matter how tiny that potential is) undermine abortion rights.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 01-28-11 at 12:46 PM.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Before such a discussion could be undertaken, many liberals (and others) would have to educate themselves on the subject of where guns come from, and how criminals get access to them. The issue is not having too many guns in the U.S. Most of those guns are in the hands of people who are responsible with them and store them properly. The issue is having too many ILLEGAL guns in the U.S.

    I've found that a lot of liberals have an almost visceral reaction to the sight of a gun on someone's person. I've run gang training for years, and I've had people attending a conference I planned become very offended because police officers in attendance were visible armed with sidearms. Many jurisdictions have rules about carrying sidearms. Cops don't carry guns like this to offend people from schools and social services. They are required to do so, and they are required to do so in specific ways.

    I would say that, in general, conservatives understand the relevant issues in the topic of gun control better than the average liberal, because it's a matter of significant importance to them and they've researched the issue. Sportsmen, hunters, cops, military personnel, people who regularly handle guns are much more likely to be conservative than liberal, and they have reasons for their positions.

    I'm not a liberal or a conservative really, I go back and forth depending on the issue. But, based on my exposure to guns/crime/criminals, and based upon the training I've received, I'm very conservative on the 2nd amendment. It's hard to debate and discuss a topic with people who don't have the same basic level of understanding of the subject.

    I don't say that to be dismissive, it's just something that often occurs on these boards. Not all opinions are created equal.
    As I've said, I have no emotional reaction to guns at all, unless your pointing one at me. It is a tool, nothing more and nothing less.

    That said, I've seen irrational and uneducated views on both sides of the issue. SOme who oppose any reform treat guns as if they had some supermystical prowers.

    However, times have changed, so a real and honest discussion would help us. But only if we could have such a discussion, minus the emotion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House to Push Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    However, times have changed, so a real and honest discussion would help us. But only if we could have such a discussion, minus the emotion.
    I agree, completely.

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