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Thread: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    Wow, when you actually read the article it's somewhat contrary to the way Prof spun it when he deliberately changed the title of the article the thread title. (as if no one would notice)

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I disagree. I suspect, you have an inaccurate view of a single payer system. The opposition has put a lot misinformation out there. But regardless, a majority in those countries with it really don't want to trade with us. I think there is a reason for that. Those who have access problems here likely understand why.
    I understand why countries with single payer can't get rid of it. When you train monkeys that they cannot get by without Gov't, they balk when asked too.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I understand why countries with single payer can't get rid of it. When you train monkeys that they cannot get by without Gov't, they balk when asked too.
    So the English, Canadians, French, and most of the rest of the world are monkeys now? Damn man, I hope you stay in America because you'd probably be laughed at anywhere else. The best part is, if you broke your leg in any of those countries, they wouldn't ask you for ID or a credit card. They'd fix you with a smile and send you on your way, but monkeys smile at just about anything I guess.

    *Edited:

    Not the greatest website, but here is a list of countries that currently have some form of universal health care.

    List of Countries with Universal Healthcare True Cost – Analyzing our economy, government policy, and society through the lens of cost-benefit
    Norway 1912 Single Payer
    New Zealand 1938 Two Tier
    Japan 1938 Single Payer
    Germany 1941 Insurance Mandate
    Belgium 1945 Insurance Mandate
    United Kingdom 1948 Single Payer
    Kuwait 1950 Single Payer
    Sweden 1955 Single Payer
    Bahrain 1957 Single Payer
    Brunei 1958 Single Payer
    Canada 1966 Single Payer
    Netherlands 1966 Two-Tier
    Austria 1967 Insurance Mandate
    United Arab Emirates 1971 Single Payer
    Finland 1972 Single Payer
    Slovenia 1972 Single Payer
    Denmark 1973 Two-Tier
    Luxembourg 1973 Insurance Mandate
    France 1974 Two-Tier
    Australia 1975 Two Tier
    Ireland 1977 Two-Tier
    Italy 1978 Single Payer
    Portugal 1979 Single Payer
    Cyprus 1980 Single Payer
    Greece 1983 Insurance Mandate
    Spain 1986 Single Payer
    South Korea 1988 Insurance Mandate
    Iceland 1990 Single Payer
    Hong Kong 1993 Two-Tier
    Singapore 1993 Two-Tier
    Switzerland 1994 Insurance Mandate
    Israel 1995 Two-Tier
    United States 2014 Insurance Mandate
    Last edited by whysoserious; 01-28-11 at 12:54 AM.

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    The issues are lack of effective malpractice legislation, no incentive to keep the population healthy, unpaid medical bills by people who cannot afford it, and unethical insurance practices by both the general population and the insurance companies themselves. Oh, and lack of digitalized records is another huge issue.
    i'm afraid the systemic problems are quite a bit larger and longer in the making than you point to

    for example, from june, 2005:

    Exploding Medicaid costs are straining state budgets across the country and were a primary cause of 2006 budget gaps that legislators faced in roughly half of the states this year, according to an April 14 report from the NCSL.
    Budget deadline looms large in 10 states

    and, of course, there's quite a bit more:

    Capitol Briefing - Senate votes to keep Medicare cuts

    ER visits, costs in Mass. climb - The Boston Globe

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/bu.../02health.html

    Senate passes 1-year doc fix - The Hill's Healthwatch

    Budget Office Rebuts Democratic Claims on Medicare (Update1) - Bloomberg

    Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

    ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations

    Buy Insurance or Go to Jail? - The Note

    Helping Americans Keep the Coverage They Have and Promoting Transparency | HHS.gov

    read, enjoy, catch up
    Last edited by The Prof; 01-28-11 at 01:07 AM.

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    i'm afraid the systemic problems are quite a bit larger and longer in the making than you point to
    I have no doubt you are correct that there are more reasons why health care is so unbelievably, ridiculously expensive than what I listed. Either ways, it's a terribly crappy system and it needs to be completely scrapped and started over.

    Also, again, digitalize records!?! Let's do it! No more, "what's wrong with you again?" or "We need to have a consultation before we can treat you so that we can have you fill out a long survey and we can find out what's wrong with you again since the other place knows but they didn't send us the documents."

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I understand why countries with single payer can't get rid of it. When you train monkeys that they cannot get by without Gov't, they balk when asked too.
    That's just insulting to others and too dismissive of the reality. People suffer when they don't have access, and it effects more than the person suffering. The nation is better if we have decent health care for all.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Shall we just skip over the 'what does it cost' part again?
    No. I suggest we do some major refrom that would help costs. As I've said, I think that would be a single payer system. But, more forward.

    That said, again, paying more for more is better than paying more for less as we've been doing. Paying less for more is better still.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Wow, when you actually read the article it's somewhat contrary to the way Prof spun it when he deliberately changed the title of the article the thread title. (as if no one would notice)
    THis is why you're in a tizzy???

    Thread title: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings
    Article title: Medicare official doubts health care law savings

    the opening of the article...
    Two of the central promises of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law are unlikely to be fulfilled, Medicare's independent economic expert told Congress on Wednesday.

    The landmark legislation probably won't hold costs down, and it won't let everybody keep their current health insurance if they like it, Chief Actuary Richard Foster told the House Budget Committee. His office is responsible for independent long-range cost estimates.
    All he did was clarify the specific position of the person quoted. How is that misleading, contrary to fact, or a 'spin'? Remember now, you claimed the spin was the title change.

    Do tell.

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    rcp carried the story as "actuary doubts," not "official doubts"

    my inadvertence is actually in violation of dp forum rules, i hope (as much as i care) the monitors will gimme a break

    i was so busy sorting thru links from msnbc, wapo, the globe, the nyt, the hill, bloomberg, cbo's website, abc, hhs' website and politico, all pasted in this thread, i lost it

    i apologize

    LOL!

    more to come---stay tuned

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    Re: Medicare Actuary Doubts Health Care Law Savings

    i made another mistake the micsroscopic minded musta missed

    instead of the link to the cbo website demonstrating the MORE THAN THREE QUARTERS OF A TRILLION dollars of new "revenues" obamacare relies upon to reach its bogus balance, i accidentally pasted the link to the now world famous UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA STUDY showing that after "controlling for age gender, income, geographic region, operation and 30 comorbid conditions," the findings are that "SURGICAL PATIENTS ON MEDICAID ACTUALLY FARE WORSE THAN THE UNINSURED"

    the link to that sad little study is in the op

    here's the CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE statement painting up the THREE QUARTERS OF A TRIL in new fines, fees, mandates, taxes...

    Director's Blog Blog Archive Additional Information on CBO’s Preliminary Analysis of H.R. 2

    my bad

    busy, busy, busy...

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