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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

apdst said:
Actually, it's going to be determined by the army, but what the hell. Right?
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the army has stated their commitment to protect the people, safeguard their interests and security, maintain the safety of the country and its citizens and the achievements of the great Egyptian people and reaffirm and support the people's legitimate demands.

transcript

Mosaic News - 02/10/11: World News From The Middle East
Egyptian army vows to protect the people
Al Jazeera TV, Qatar
Guest, Male #1
In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate. Communiqué Number 1 from the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces: Based on the armed forces' responsibility and commitment to protect the people, safeguard their interests and security, maintain the safety of the country and its citizens and the achievements of the great Egyptian people, reaffirm and support the people's legitimate demands, Today, Thursday February 10, 2011, the Supreme Council for the Armed Forces convened a meeting to discuss recent developments. It has been decided that a meeting will convene continuously to look into what measures and procedures need to be taken to protect the country and the achievements and the aspirations of the great people of Egypt. May peace be with you, along with God's mercy and blessing.

Presenter, Male #1
This was Communiqué Number 1 from the Egyptian Supreme Council of the Armed Forces which affirmed its commitment to support the people's legitimate demands. The statement also said that the council will continue to convene to discuss the possible measures and arrangements to be taken for the interest of the nation and the citizens.

Link TV | Episode Transcript
 
Serenity said:
the army has stated their commitment to protect the people, safeguard their interests and security, maintain the safety of the country and its citizens and the achievements of the great Egyptian people and reaffirm and support the people's legitimate demands.

transcript

Mosaic News - 02/10/11: World News From The Middle East
Egyptian army vows to protect the people
Al Jazeera TV, Qatar
Guest, Male #1
In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate. Communiqué Number 1 from the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces: Based on the armed forces' responsibility and commitment to protect the people, safeguard their interests and security, maintain the safety of the country and its citizens and the achievements of the great Egyptian people, reaffirm and support the people's legitimate demands, Today, Thursday February 10, 2011, the Supreme Council for the Armed Forces convened a meeting to discuss recent developments. It has been decided that a meeting will convene continuously to look into what measures and procedures need to be taken to protect the country and the achievements and the aspirations of the great people of Egypt. May peace be with you, along with God's mercy and blessing.

Presenter, Male #1
This was Communiqué Number 1 from the Egyptian Supreme Council of the Armed Forces which affirmed its commitment to support the people's legitimate demands. The statement also said that the council will continue to convene to discuss the possible measures and arrangements to be taken for the interest of the nation and the citizens.

Link TV | Episode Transcript
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Ok. And?

Nasser said that, too. So did Lenin. Hitler, Mussolini, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Khomeni...they all had the, "peoples's", best interests in mind.

You think I'm going to be convinced, just because the army says they're not up to any good?
 
apdst said:
Ok. And?

Nasser said that, too. So did Lenin. Hitler, Mussolini, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Khomeni...they all had the, "peoples's", best interests in mind.

You think I'm going to be convinced, just because the army says they're not up to any good?
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You just love engaging in fallacies don't you?
 
Erod said:
Well, the people ain't too happy, no.
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Then they have a good example to follow in what the Egyptians accomplished.
 
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Here's the hero that started it all.
 
ricksfolly said:
ALL Sunni suicide bombing was directed at their long-time enemies, the Shiite, as we've seen and read about for the last 7 years, and could have nothing to do with the religion they both follow, Muslim.
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And this is exactly why I wish to slap America across the face. Do you know of the differnece between the Shia and the Sunni? Their hatreds for each other (mostly Sunni sided) is absolutely about Islam. If you don't know what you are talking about...shut the hell up and don't waste my time. In fact, why don't you apply for a job with the media or Washington.
 
apdst said:
You think I'm going to be convinced, just because the army says they're not up to any good?
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**** it, I'll just get you on this one.

If you looked at the crowds in Cairo and across the country, would your first thought be, "Hey I'd like to try and govern that".

I rest my case.
 
Jetboogieman said:
**** it, I'll just get you on this one.

If you looked at the crowds in Cairo and across the country, would your first thought be, "Hey I'd like to try and govern that".

I rest my case.
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What crowds, "across the country"?

Let's not forget that less than 1% of Egyptians were represented during these protests.
 
apdst said:
What crowds, "across the country"?

Let's not forget that less than 1% of Egyptians were represented during these protests.
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I suppose you have some way to back up this claim.

Since you can't refute my statement.

Would your first thought be "I'd like to try and govern this?".

The military has played it cool, and I think they'll continue to do so.

Yes they may have pressured Mubarak into leaving, but that's a good thing.
 
apdst said:
Got anything to refute me...aside from 50 cent words?
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There's nothing to refute. Your argument is flawed to begin with.

Your disbelief in the Egyptian army's intentions are guided by fallacious reasonings.
 
apdst said:
Let's not forget that less than 1% of Egyptians were represented during these protests.
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Over a million was enough!
 
Degreez said:
There's nothing to refute. Your argument is flawed to begin with.

Your disbelief in the Egyptian army's intentions are guided by fallacious reasonings.
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You know that, how?

I could say that your coonfidence in the Egyptian army is naive, but I don't know that.

So, we're left to offer our opinions, agree to disagree and refrain from insulting one another and using the typical, "you're wrong!...uh...just, because...".
 
Catawba said:
Over a million was enough!
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There's 80 million people in Egypt.

If 3 million people showed up in Washington and demanded that Obama step down, do you think he should pack his **** and leave?
 
apdst said:
You know that, how?

I could say that your coonfidence in the Egyptian army is naive, but I don't know that.

So, we're left to offer our opinions, agree to disagree and refrain from insulting one another and using the typical, "you're wrong!...uh...just, because...".
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I know it because you stated why in post #1752 in this thread (http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...nd-end-mubarak-regime-176.html#post1059279593)

Of course you won't notice the fallacy: Proof by example - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You gave a few examples where a DICTATOR who controlled the military said they had the peoples' best interests in mind. Is that how you would describe the situation in Egypt currently?
 
Jetboogieman said:
I suppose you have some way to back up this claim.

Since you can't refute my statement.

Would your first thought be "I'd like to try and govern this?".

The military has played it cool, and I think they'll continue to do so.

Yes they may have pressured Mubarak into leaving, but that's a good thing.
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I hope they do and everything comes up roses. However, we can't ignore the reality that that may not be the case.
 
Interesting irony in the far-right's panic over the Muslim Brotherhood:

"After all, in the United States it is axiomatic that Islam is inherently opposed to democracy and that Muslims are incapable of reconciling democratic and Islamic values. Never mind that the same people who scoff at the notion that religion could play no role in the emerging democracies in the Middle East are the same people who demand that religion must play a role in America's democracy. Ironically, one of the most vocal proponent of religious activism in politics is Mike Huckabee himself, who has repeatedly called Americans to "take this nation back for Christ" and who, while running for president, proudly declared that "what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards."
The Roots of the American Right?s Muslim Brotherhood Panic | Religion Dispatches
 
Catawba said:
Interesting irony in the far-right's panic over the Muslim Brotherhood:

"After all, in the United States it is axiomatic that Islam is inherently opposed to democracy and that Muslims are incapable of reconciling democratic and Islamic values. Never mind that the same people who scoff at the notion that religion could play no role in the emerging democracies in the Middle East are the same people who demand that religion must play a role in America's democracy. Ironically, one of the most vocal proponent of religious activism in politics is Mike Huckabee himself, who has repeatedly called Americans to "take this nation back for Christ" and who, while running for president, proudly declared that "what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards."
The Roots of the American Right?s Muslim Brotherhood Panic | Religion Dispatches
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The fear is simply in the name.

If they were called the "Brotherhood of the Care Bears" no one would care, but throw "Brotherhood of the Muslim Care Bears" into the equation, and it's RUN FOR THE HILLS!
 
apdst said:
There's 80 million people in Egypt.

If 3 million people showed up in Washington and demanded that Obama step down, do you think he should pack his **** and leave?
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If they have won over the military with their cause as was the case in Egypt, then yes, I think he should pack his bags and leave.
 
Catawba said:
Interesting irony in the far-right's panic over the Muslim Brotherhood:

"After all, in the United States it is axiomatic that Islam is inherently opposed to democracy and that Muslims are incapable of reconciling democratic and Islamic values. Never mind that the same people who scoff at the notion that religion could play no role in the emerging democracies in the Middle East are the same people who demand that religion must play a role in America's democracy. Ironically, one of the most vocal proponent of religious activism in politics is Mike Huckabee himself, who has repeatedly called Americans to "take this nation back for Christ" and who, while running for president, proudly declared that "what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards."
The Roots of the American Right?s Muslim Brotherhood Panic | Religion Dispatches
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Muslims only need to look back into their history, to the pinnacle of their achievement, the Islamic Golden Age, for resolution of liberalism and Islamic virtues. These days liberalism takes the form of democracy.

Many medieval Muslim thinkers pursued humanistic, rational and scientific discourses in their search for knowledge, meaning and values. A wide range of Islamic writings on love, poetry, history and philosophical theology show that medieval Islamic thought was open to the humanistic ideas of individualism, occasional secularism, skepticism and liberalism
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reefedjib said:
Muslims only need to look back into their history, to the pinnacle of their achievement, the Islamic Golden Age, for resolution of liberalism and Islamic virtues. These days liberalism takes the form of democracy.
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Islam Can't Escape Blame - DAILY STAR.leb Forums
My religion has strayed far since its golden age.
BY AMIR TAHERI
October 27, 2001
Wall Street Journal (originally)

"This has nothing to do with Islam," British Prime Minister Tony Blair recently told a delegation of Muslims at a meeting at 10 Downing Street, referring to the Sept. 11 attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Mr. Blair was echoing a view, popular both in Europe and the U.S., that it is impolite, not to say impolitic, to subject Islam to any criticism. Yet to claim that the attacks had nothing to do with Islam amounts to a whitewash. It is not only disingenuous but also a disservice to Muslims, who need to cast a critical glance at the way their faith is taught, lived and practiced.
Even worse, the refusal to subject Islam to rational analysis is a recipe for further fanaticism.
[.....]
There is more. All but one of the world's remaining military regimes are in Muslim countries. With the exception of Turkey and Bangladesh, there are no real elections in any Muslim country. Of the current 30 active conflicts in the world no fewer than 28 concern Muslim governments and/or communities. Two-thirds of the world's political prisoners are held in Muslim countries, which also carry out 80% of all executions each year.
[......]
The Muslim world today is full of bigotry, fanaticism, hypocrisy and plain ignorance--all of which create a breeding ground for criminals like bin Laden. *The principal victims of these criminals are Muslims, who are prevented from developing a modern political culture without which they cannot reform their societies and rebuild their economies.*

What I am saying is Not meant as critique of Islam as a belief system; that's an issue for theologians, and people should be free to believe whatever they like. What is needed is a critique of Islam as an existential reality. The Sept. 11 tragedies should trigger a rethink of the way Muslims live Islam. We should start with condemning those attacks without "ifs" and "buts." Sadly, the way we Muslims live Islam today is a far cry from the way our ancestors lived it in the golden age when Islam was a builder of civilization, not a force for repression, terror and destruction.
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Mr Taheri has some good points.
The question is... was there really an 'Islamic Golden Age' for all it's conquered people's.
 
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mbig said:
Islam Can't Escape Blame - DAILY STAR.leb Forums
My religion has strayed far since its golden age.
BY AMIR TAHERI
October 27, 2001
Wall Street Journal (originally)



Mr Taheri has some good points.
The question is... was there really an 'Islamic Golden Age' for all it's conquered people's.
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And yet it has been the Christian Armies, not the Muslim Armies that are setting up military occupations in other countries all over the world, and we do it with God on our side I am told.
 
mbig said:
Islam Can't Escape Blame - DAILY STAR.leb Forums
My religion has strayed far since its golden age.
BY AMIR TAHERI
October 27, 2001
Wall Street Journal (originally)



Mr Taheri has some good points.
The question is... was there really an 'Islamic Golden Age' for all it's conquered people's.
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Nice article. Totally concur. Been waiting for self-analysis and criticism for years.

Regarding the incorporation of other religions and freedoms in the Islamic Golden Age:

Individuals contributing to the Islamic Golden Age were not necessarily Muslim however, considering many parts of the then-tolerant Islamic world were inhabited by other religious groups, such as Christians, Jews and Mandeans.
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Religious freedom, though society was still controlled under Islamic values, helped create cross-cultural networks by attracting Muslim, Christian and Jewish intellectuals and thereby helped spawn the greatest period of philosophical creativity in the Middle Ages from the 8th to 13th centuries.[5] Another reason the Islamic world flourished during this period was an early emphasis on freedom of speech, as summarized by al-Hashimi (a cousin of Caliph al-Ma'mun) in the following letter to one of the religious opponents he was attempting to convert through reason.
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Catawba said:
And yet it has been the Christian Armies, not the Muslim Armies that are setting up military occupations in other countries all over the world, and we do it with God on our side I am told.
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Hey Cat! Hope you're well.

Due to the backwardness/stagnation of Muslim cultures over the last 500-1000 years, they're 'armies' really aren't capable of any International deployment!
Nice try though tho it's somewhat an empty claim for the reason above.

Not there hasn't been grotesque killing in the name of Islam in places like Sudan (especially Genocide I, pre-Darfur) and places like East Timor.
And war and repression over virtually the whole 'Islamic Front Line' from Mauritania to Mindinao. (pak/India, Armena/Azerbijan, etc) see my last post.

And the 'Christian Armies' you speak of are Not acting in the name of Christianity.
In fact, we saved Muslims in Bosnia by stopping that ethnic cleansing.
Bravo my country!
 
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