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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

I clearly did touch a patriotic nerve of yours. I just said lol and you got all touchy and sensitive and said compared to whom, Somalia.

Perhaps you are not as confident that US is a "Great" as you say if it must be compared to mine to then justify why it is so marvellous.
:shrug:

America is the barometer of awesome and Somalia is the opposite end of the spectrum of suck. I think the problem with Somalia, is there are way too many Somalians.
 
I don't know, but they did have 20% representation in the Egyptian parliament until the last rigged election. Similar to Iraq's Shiite coalition, presumably the MB will have to share power with other conservatives to form a coalition themselves. That's democracy....

Yeah, reminds me of Hamas and the Palestinians. The wolf comes in sheep's clothing.
 
Interesting, 8 out of 11 are Muslim countries. How depressing for what was once the pinnacle of tolerant, liberal culture in the world.

Yeah. Absolutely tragic.
I wish it does continue to spread across ME and Africa.
I'm kinda worried about Pakistan due to its proximity to Afghanistan but otherwise. I hope it spreads to Iran, Jordan and Syria

America is the barometer of awesome and Somalia is the opposite end of the spectrum of suck. I think the problem with Somalia, is there are way too many Somalians.

Ah, you so represent everything wrong with US and Americans. Your country wades into areas of the world and screws it up and doesn't even at the very least google the history of the region. It only takes a couple of minutes to google something
 
Yeah, if we realize that, "foreign policy", has a very broad definition. Alotta folks--mostly Libbos--love to spout about how it's our, "foreign policy", that is the problem, but they're usualy unable to tell us which exact foreign policy that is.

It usually goes something like this:

me: What foreign policy?

Libbo: our foreign, policy.

me: which one?

Libbo: the foreign one.

me: ok, but what about the foreign policy is bad?

Libbo: it was Reagan's fault.

me: what'd he do?

Libbo: Iran-Contra!

I am talking about our concrete actions taken over the years, primarily the hypocracy of talking democracy and promoting autocrats for strategic and commercial reasons. We have supported and tried to install too many dictators.
 
Yeah. Absolutely tragic.
I wish it does continue to spread across ME and Africa.
I'm kinda worried about Pakistan due to its proximity to Afghanistan but otherwise. I hope it spreads to Iran, Jordan and Syria



Ah, you so represent everything wrong with US and Americans. Your country wades into areas of the world and screws it up and doesn't even at the very least google the history of the region. It only takes a couple of minutes to google something

The same way that Facism and Communism spread. Trully awesome, I must say.
 
Yeah, reminds me of Hamas and the Palestinians. The wolf comes in sheep's clothing.

True enough, although Hamas got significantly more than 50% of the vote somehow.... mmmm.....
 
The same way that Facism and Communism spread. Trully awesome, I must say.

It should spread and I wish the people luck in overthrowing their dictators :shrug:
 
I am talking about our concrete actions taken over the years, primarily the hypocracy of talking democracy and promoting autocrats for strategic and commercial reasons. We have supported and tried to install too many dictators.

But, what was the alternative? Could we sit back and allow the Soviets to control all the countries in the ME? I think the ramifications of that would ended up costing the lives of millions. I guess there was always the option of invading the Soviet Union.
 
It should spread and I wish the people luck in overthrowing their dictators :shrug:

Then, we'll just have to kill'em all, the way we did the Facists and the Commies. The Islamists--not muslims--are just as bad as Hitler and Stalin.
 
Then, we'll just have to kill'em all, the way we did the Facists and the Commies. The Islamists--not muslims--are just as bad as Hitler and Stalin.

:lamo

Now being compared to Hitler. (Although I do appreciate that "not Muslims" part)

Hitler and Stalin was Westerners. Heh, the same area of the world that has been the home of the worst atrocities in the world is the same area which seek to prevent other people in ME/Africa having a say in their own countries :lol:


You create a dilemma for the forum.

Heart breaking. I'll ponder that during my prayers
 
Yeah. Absolutely tragic.
I wish it does continue to spread across ME and Africa.
I'm kinda worried about Pakistan due to its proximity to Afghanistan but otherwise. I hope it spreads to Iran, Jordan and Syria

Ok, sure. Power to the people. The only issue, which is what some of the folks here are concerned about, is that the dominant political organizations seem to be identified as Islamic and NOT as liberal. To my way of thinking, you got to let them get into power to transform their countries, then let liberalization take it's course. The only problem with that is that there is very infinitesimally tiny evidence that there is any liberalization movement going on, certainly not of the vigour needed to confront the Islamists. If fact, the Islamists never get confronted, in the ME or in immigrant communities in Europe or the US.
 
But, what was the alternative? Could we sit back and allow the Soviets to control all the countries in the ME? I think the ramifications of that would ended up costing the lives of millions. I guess there was always the option of invading the Soviet Union.

The Soviets never would've gotten full control in the ME only in their wildest dreams. Nasserism and Pan-Arabism was the counter to Soviet Communism and Chinesse Maoism. Nasser and his followers viewed both of them as counter to Arab culture, there was Soviet influence but the Arab world refused to be the Soveit bootlick in the same guise as the Warsaw Pact.
 
The Soviets never would've gotten full control in the ME only in their wildest dreams. Nasserism and Pan-Arabism was the counter to Soviet Communism and Chinesse Maoism. Nasser and his followers viewed both of them as counter to Arab culture, there was Soviet influence but the Arab world refused to be the Soveit bootlick in the same guise as the Warsaw Pact.

Maybe, maybe not, but in the 1950's, they didn't have hindsight to draw on.
 
But, what was the alternative? Could we sit back and allow the Soviets to control all the countries in the ME? I think the ramifications of that would ended up costing the lives of millions. I guess there was always the option of invading the Soviet Union.

I am not convinced that there was only that binary choice. Truth was, we valued controllable and influencable allies much more than spreading democracy. We could have forced our despotic allies to democratize. That would have been a more consistent FP. Especially in the ME.


Now, of course, this must be tempered by the fact that the number of democracies in the world flourished while we have been a superpower, and we certainly helped do that with soft power, i.e. foreign policy and economic policy and McDonalds and music and movies.
 
:lamo

Now being compared to Hitler. (Although I do appreciate that "not Muslims" part)

Hitler and Stalin was Westerners. Heh, the same area of the world that has been the home of the worst atrocities in the world is the same area which seek to prevent other people in ME/Africa having a say in their own countries :lol:




Heart breaking. I'll ponder that during my prayers

Islamists have been committing atrocities in the name of Islam for over a thousand years. Let us not forget the Muslim units that served with the SS and killed millions in the Balkans.
 
I thought you were onto something, until I saw that Elbaradei is in charge of the NAC. Sorry, but if has anything to do with it, I'm not sold.

That's recent phenomena. The umbrella org of other secular groups pre-dated his adoption as representative.
 
Ok, sure. Power to the people. The only issue, which is what some of the folks here are concerned about, is that the dominant political organizations seem to be identified as Islamic and NOT as liberal. To my way of thinking, you got to let them get into power to transform their countries, then let liberalization take it's course. The only problem with that is that there is very infinitesimally tiny evidence that there is any liberalization movement going on, certainly not of the vigour needed to confront the Islamists. If fact, the Islamists never get confronted, in the ME or in immigrant communities in Europe or the US.

But this is ridiculous.
The one main reason there is not alot of opposition is because (in MANY cases) the Western backed dictators and tyrants have oppressed and suppressed any opposition politically and ensured their voice is the only one. If there is weakness in who should come to power or a legitimate opposition to Government. It is because it was deliberately done!

What is highly amusing to observe. It is some of those countries which have a secular dictatorship, are the ones which are breeding more and more extremist ideas. Look at Tunisia, it is not a secular country. Islam is recognised, aspects of Sharia is recognised. Yet it has a secular society
The Muslim brotherhood should have been included into talks decades ago, now it is too late. Hamas should have been incorporated years ago, now it is too late.
Saudi Arabia is screwed anyway so who cares about that country.

The point is that yes, many Muslims if they had a vote would choose to have a religious leaning Government but I do not think Egypt will be one of them.
 
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assuming this all works out relatively peacefully... what are the odds Obama takes credit for the resolution?
 
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