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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

you don't have to read every post, it's just been over the last few pages. i posted initially to say why i thought using extreme cases and trying to paint everyone with the same brush was wrong. and i stand by that.

not every Palestinian is an evil terrorist or 'bastard' and dances in the streets when Americans are killed. not every American is calling for the destruction of Gaza like the idiot holding that sign.

that was my point.
Okay, and what about Israel? Are there any generalizations about Israel you think are unfair?
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Generally, crude oil is fungible. Except for nation to nation deals like the ones worked out by the Chinese, the price of crude oil is established by the commodities market. That is outside American control without additional production from this country.

Not being able to control the price doesn't mean that American's do not receive much of the money that comes from increases n price. In fact, Americans see a lot of it.

By your own calculations sixty percent of the funds spent by Americans on crude oil goes to foreign producers.

Not at all. By my calculations 60% of the oil comes from foreign sources, as in from foreign oil fields. As far as where the money goes, that's a whole different ball of wax. Much of that ends up back in American pockets. ExxonMobil, for example, is the world's largest refiner. ConocoPhillips has a large presence in Canada and elsewhere. Don't confuse teh fact that the sources are forieign with the idea that the money is going into foreign hands. Much of it remains in American hands, regardless of which particular portion of the Earth the oil originated from.



Fear and anger are powerful motivators. Like lightening on a rainy night stampeding a herd. Time will tell who is correct.

Powerful motivators when dealing with herd animals, but wastes of time when presenting an argument.
 
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Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Okay, and what about Israel? Are there any generalizations about Israel you think are unfair?
ok, this is getting really tiresome because i've already explained my point and i don't see why you would think i would not feel the same about Israel. Israel are no different to any other Country. from my experience, Israel like every other Country have generalizations made about them that are unfair.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

ok, this is getting really tiresome because i've already explained my point and i don't see why you would think i would not feel the same about Israel. Israel are no different to any other Country. from my experience, Israel like every other Country have generalizations made about them that are unfair.

I agree with you. Generalizations about demographics, religions, genders, etc., annoy the heck out of me, too. I think it's good to remind each other when we're falling into the "generalization" trap. You go, girl! :mrgreen:
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

...
Not at all. By my calculations 60% of the oil comes from foreign sources, as in from foreign oil fields. As far as where the money goes, that's a whole different ball of wax. Much of that ends up back in American pockets. ExxonMobil, for example, is the world's largest refiner. ConocoPhillips has a large presence in Canada and elsewhere. Don't confuse teh fact that the sources are forieign with the idea that the money is going into foreign hands. Much of it remains in American hands, regardless of which particular portion of the Earth the oil originated from....

Hey Sensei,

This is where I get to ask you to walk me through your calculations step by step. We have now passed the point of rhetoric.

You have made a number of assertions and I request that you prove the truth of each of the matters you assert. Let's focus on crude oil and refined petroleum products on a product by product basis.

Show me how much money goes to foreign producers, how much stays with American crude oil producers, how much is taken by American refiners, how much is taken by foreign refiners, how much is taken by American jobbers, how much is taken by American wholesalers and how much is taken by retail distributors. Then we can compare. Thanks.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

ok, this is getting really tiresome because i've already explained my point and i don't see why you would think i would not feel the same about Israel. Israel are no different to any other Country. from my experience, Israel like every other Country have generalizations made about them that are unfair.
You don't see why I'd think you don't feel the same way about Israel? No offense, but you're pretty critical of Israel. It seems, sometimes, you blame Israel for the security measures it takes without showing much regard for why they must take them. That's my perception.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

You don't see why I'd think you don't feel the same way about Israel? No offense, but you're pretty critical of Israel. It seems, sometimes, you blame Israel for the security measures it takes without showing much regard for why they must take them. That's my perception.
you're getting way off topic here. feel free to start a thread and we can carry on with this there if you like.

bit of a heads up for you before you do, it might pay you to search through my posts and you will see that i support Palestinian basic human rights and am criticial of the role Israel plays in what i see as sometimes abusing those rights. you will also see that i don't support Hamas and am equally critical of the disgusting role they play, and this should go without saying, but i absolutely support Israels right to protect it's civillians from terror and violence. all of those things i've already mentioned in my posts.

perhaps you only see what you want to see.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Al Jazeera on live cam feed from Tahrir Square are reporting more than a hundred thousand protestors have gathered so far.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Al Jazeera on live cam feed from Tahrir Square are reporting more than a hundred thousand protestors have gathered so far.

Watching the live feed now and AJ is saying there are now a million people around Tahrir Square. I think this is growing....
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

you're getting way off topic here. feel free to start a thread and we can carry on with this there if you like.

bit of a heads up for you before you do, it might pay you to search through my posts and you will see that i support Palestinian basic human rights and am criticial of the role Israel plays in what i see as sometimes abusing those rights. you will also see that i don't support Hamas and am equally critical of the disgusting role they play, and this should go without saying, but i absolutely support Israels right to protect it's civillians from terror and violence. all of those things i've already mentioned in my posts.

perhaps you only see what you want to see.


Would it be a good thing for the ME, or the world for that matter should the MB take over in that part of the region?


And if you think so why?


j-mac
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Hey Sensei,

This is where I get to ask you to walk me through your calculations step by step.

We have now passed the point of rhetoric.

You have made a number of assertions and I request that you prove the truth of each of the matters you assert. Let's focus on crude oil and refined petroleum products on a product by product basis.

Show me how much money goes to foreign producers, how much stays with American crude oil producers, how much is taken by American refiners, how much is taken by foreign refiners, how much is taken by American jobbers, how much is taken by American wholesalers and how much is taken by retail distributors. Then we can compare. Thanks.

Hey butterfly,

It's called research. Do some:

Crude Oil FAQs - Energy Information Administration

http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petr...company_level_imports/current/data/import.xls

I only claimed that a large portion of the extra money spent went into American hands. Just look at the list of companies in the excel document. A great number of those companies which import the foreign oil are American companies. They are receiving a portion of the extra money. Just because the physical source of the petroleum is foreign does not mean that American companies are not heavily involved in the process.

Not only that, but it's also true that it doesn't matter if the physical source of the petroleum is domestic because the company involved can be foreign. Remember the oil spill? Foreign company.
 
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Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

I see a few thousand protestors. Egypt's population is 80 million.

D'oh.
and a few days later we have Al Jareeza reporting right now that up to two million protestors in and around Tahrir square are holding peaceful protests.
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Who was it that said the Muslim Brotherhood aren't the bad guys?

A leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt told the Arabic-language Iranian news network Al-Alam on Monday that he would like to see the Egyptian people prepare for war against Israel, according to the Hebrew-language business newspaper Calcalist.

Muhammad Ghannem reportedly told Al- Alam that the Suez Canal should be closed immediately, and that the flow of gas from Egypt to Israel should cease “in order to bring about the downfall of the Mubarak regime.” He added that “the people should be prepared for war against Israel,” saying the world should understand that “the Egyptian people are prepared for anything to get rid of this regime.”

Muslim Brotherhood:
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Hey butterfly,

It's called research. Do some:

Crude Oil FAQs - Energy Information Administration

http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petr...company_level_imports/current/data/import.xls

I only claimed that a large portion of the extra money spent went into American hands. Just look at the list of companies in the excel document. A great number of those companies which import the foreign oil are American companies. They are receiving a portion of the extra money. Just because the physical source of the petroleum is foreign does not mean that American companies are not heavily involved in the process.

Not only that, but it's also true that it doesn't matter if the physical source of the petroleum is domestic because the company involved can be foreign. Remember the oil spill? Foreign company.

Hey thanks for the time devoted to research. Now back to the crisis in the mid east.:)
 
Re: "Beginning of the end" for Egypt's Mubarak, as son and wife flee

Moderator's Warning:
Lets stick to the topic folks
 
Million man march

Egyptian protesters are holding huge rallies in Cairo and other cities as they step up their efforts to force President Hosni Mubarak from power.

Organisers say they hope one million will come on to the streets of the capital in what is expected to be the biggest demonstration yet.

The atmosphere has been festive, with protesters singing and chanting.

Protest leaders, including Mohamed ElBaradei, have called on Mr Mubarak to step down by Friday at the latest.

"They hope that this will end today or Friday at the latest, and they called the coming Friday 'the Friday of departure', but I hope that President Mubarak will take heed before then and leave the country after 30 years of rule and give the people a chance, and I don't expect that he wants to see more blood," Mr ElBaradei told al-Arabiya TV.

BBC News - Egypt protesters hold massive demonstration in Cairo

The Army has vowed to not use force against the protesters.
The Muslim Brotherhood and other opposition refuse to have talks with the Government until Mubarak leaves


Meanwhile in a different part of the ME ...

Jordan seems to be having problems
Islamists, leftists and union members marched Friday in downtown Amman, demanding more significant economic and political reforms to help struggling citizens.

About 3,000 people gathered in the Jordanian capital for the event, according to national police spokesman Lt. Col. Mohammad Al Khateeb. Half of those demonstrated, while the remainder walked alongside or watched from the sidelines.

Protesters in Jordan demand political, economic reforms - CNN.com

In one of Old Damascus' new cafes, text messages buzzed between mobiles in quick succession, drawing woops of joy and thumbs up from astonished Syrians.

Suzan Mubarak, the wife of the Egyptian president, had flown into exile with her son - so the rumours went - driven out of the country by days of unprecedented protest against the 30-year rule of her husband.

The news from Cairo brought a flutter of excitement to this country, founded on principles so similar to Egypt that the two nations were once joined as one.

Like Egypt, Syria has been ruled for decades by a single party, with a security service that maintains an iron grip on its citizens. Both countries have been struggling to reform economies stifled for generations by central control in an effort to curb unemployment among a ballooning youth demographic.

Could the domino effect that spread from the streets of Tunis to Cairo soon hit Damascus?

The Syrians are watching - Features - Al Jazeera English

Is Syria next along with Jordan? :shrug:
 
...Is Syria next...

I think Syria will simply kill the protesters if demonstrations arise. Bashir's dad killed twenty thousand Syrians who resisted back in the 1980s if I recall correctly. He destroyed an entire city.
 
Al Jazeera live.
Absolutely stunning

More people are coming into the square. Over a million according to AJ and the Army is not preventing anyone entering despite the curfew starting.
Amazing
 
The Western-backed Palestinian government in the West Bank said Tuesday it will hold local council elections "as soon as possible."

The move appeared to be a response to unrest in Egypt, where demonstrators have staged days of mass protests against the authoritarian regime. The Palestinian Authority has not held elections since 2006, leaving the president and parliament members in office after their elected terms ended.

The Associated Press: Palestinians to hold municipal vote

Lolol.
Interesting how they are all shaking now and trying to buy off their own people
 
The Associated Press: Palestinians to hold municipal vote

Lolol.
Interesting how they are all shaking now and trying to buy off their own people

There appear to be a lot of quasi-democrats quaking in their despotic little boots at the moment. Of course it's a worry that it's impossible to tell how this might all shake out, but if the dictatorial, corrupt oligarchs of the region are on their way out it cannot be a wholly negative turn of events.
 
Al Jazeera live.
Absolutely stunning

More people are coming into the square. Over a million according to AJ and the Army is not preventing anyone entering despite the curfew starting.
Amazing

Historic moment that brings chills, just like the green revolution in Iran.
 
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Al Jazeera live.
Absolutely stunning

More people are coming into the square. Over a million according to AJ and the Army is not preventing anyone entering despite the curfew starting.
Amazing

Yea I love how Al Jazeera is still sending despite it being officially kicked from the country.
 
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