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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #971
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Everyone should just calm down and invite the Americans in to come strighten it all out.

    But "Arab pride" will ensure that will never happen so there will be more killings, more riots, more property destroyed and utltimately more of the same way it's always been.
    I am as as patriotic and proud of the USA as the next guy, but I think we need to stay out of this (in any active sense) and simply repeat our stance that we support the will of the people within Eygpt.

    I would say this no matter where these events were taking place.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post

    Indeed. Its gonna be Christmas all over again when you finally realize that most of this democratization happened through political dialogue and not guns and mortars.
    Really? How many of the world's countries became democracies without fighting for it?

    And they are in the majority??

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Watching Arabs throw rocks is really quite something ... they make it an art form. Especially when they cheer when it hits their target


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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    That is a real world practical definition of what it takes for a successful democracy.
    Something Iraq currently is not.

    Yes?

    Yes. The issues causing crisis will be internal. The model of democratization is from Iraq. As ME countries successfully democratize, there will be more models, but Iraq started it.
    Wait, so now your saying Iraq didn't influence the need for protests but the Arabs will look to Iraq as a political model? Do you mean parliamentary democracy? Because you find that in Europe. Do you mean a unity government model? Because you can find that in Africa.

    Or do you mean to say they are turning to democracy because of the implementation of it in Iraq? Well is it possible they want Democracy because its the best and fairest model of governance there is?

    Maybe they are inspired by Europe. How do you know?

    Egyptians have followed events in Iraq and been influenced by them. The Anti-Gov protesters are not organized by pre-existing secular political groups.
    Turkey has also influenced them, arguably more. The protests where started because of the economic situation specific to there nation. They look at Iraq and see a nation with far more economic problems then them. I could say Turkey on the other hand, did. It is economically stable, and expanding. Democracy was domestically achieved there, not imported. Its foreign policy is far reaching, its military is strong, its judiciary independent.

    But im merely speculating, as you are. Only you talk with a flawed conviction.

    So how is Iraq the model here? Merely because its Arab?

    Who can say whether these demonstrations would or wouldn't happen if Iraq didn't happen. Iraq definitely inspired them though.
    If Iraq inspired them, why protest now?

    There own plight inspired them.

    Really? Then why do you bring up a Turkey when we are discussing Arab democracies?
    Are you not aware of what is happening?

    It is very difficult to have a homegrown revolution. The whole situation where the security forces are the only armed forces in the country tend to put a stop to revolutions. It happened before in Iraq.
    It took egyptians to topple the interior ministers fascism, not an external power.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 02-02-11 at 09:56 AM.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Really? How many of the world's countries became democracies without fighting for it?

    And they are in the majority??
    Oh, they all fought for it. But you seem to be of the opinion that it would take the US to invade in order to create a Democracy hence your stupid comment about letting the Americans in.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime



    The Mubarak-supporters have charged into the square riding on freaking camels.
    This is the stuff they make movies from.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    I am as as patriotic and proud of the USA as the next guy, but I think we need to stay out of this (in any active sense) and simply repeat our stance that we support the will of the people within Eygpt.

    I would say this no matter where these events were taking place.
    The prefect example of creating a functioning democracy was when the Americans helped Japan create theirs. This was certainly as important as the Marshal Plan, if not more so.

    With this history in mind the Americans, in working in conjunction with Arab scholars and politicians, might possibly do the same thing.

    However this will never happen. The Japanese had been completely defeated and were a more advanced culture then than the Arabs are today.

    My feeling is the same as yours. Just watch the whole mess unfold and then keep a wary eye on whoever comes out on top. But it's not worth any American lives to get involved in there again.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post


    The Mubarak-supporters have charged into the square riding on freaking camels.
    This is the stuff they make movies from.
    Yeah I couldn't believe that either.

    Did you see the guy on the camel get dragged off the camel and beaten by the Anti Protesters?

    Edit: Pro Mubarak protesters have taken over security vehicle and firing!
    Last edited by Laila; 02-02-11 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Edited


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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Lebanon is the only one and it's history of civil war and external powers involving themselves in their affairs made it no model for other autocracies to follow. Furthermore, Iraq is certainly a "democratic" democracy and not an autocracy with the fig leaf of elections.



    The Tunisians and the Egyptians will absolutely use Iraq as a model for how peacefully transform from an autocracy to a healthy democracy. Of course the demonstrations are a result of their condition, like the Iraqis before them. 7 years of watching the political sphere develop in Iraq, through Al Jazeera for instance, has had a profound impact on the development of popular political will through the rest of the ME. This has translated directly into these demonstrations.

    Iraq is a model of democratization for the ME and has kicked off current events.
    The Economist rates Iraq a 4.00 on their 10-point "Democracy Index." That's not considered a full democracy or even a flawed democracy. It's the bare minimum score that can even be considered a democratic-autocratic hybrid state. Iraq scores lower than Russia and just barely above Cuba on the Democracy Index.

    Iraq may have a Parliament and Prime Minister (finally), but it's hardly a "democratic democracy" which serves as a good role model for other Arab states. Furthermore, Iraq is sitting on top of oil whereas Tunisia and Egypt are not. I cannot overemphasize how important oil is, as a retarding force on democratic development. Tunisia and Egypt should be able to do far better than Iraq.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-02-11 at 10:24 AM.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post


    The Mubarak-supporters have charged into the square riding on freaking camels.
    This is the stuff they make movies from.
    hahahahahaha
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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