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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I am not convinced that there was only that binary choice. Truth was, we valued controllable and influencable allies much more than spreading democracy. We could have forced our despotic allies to democratize. That would have been a more consistent FP. Especially in the ME.


    Now, of course, this must be tempered by the fact that the number of democracies in the world flourished while we have been a superpower, and we certainly helped do that with soft power, i.e. foreign policy and economic policy and McDonalds and music and movies.
    Before 1941, the United States had a totally hands off policy. After WW2, they had learned a hard lesson from that policy and weren't going to make the same mistake twice.

    In 1937, we were like, "Let the Germans invade Austria. Let'em invade Czechoslovakia. Who cares?" But then, they invaded Poland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, France and were knocking on England's door. That's the perspective that they were viewing the world from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    What's laughable is that this part of the world even comprehends what democracy is.

    They understand two things: absolute dictorship and Islamic military rule.

    Fyi, when you're allowed to beat your women in public, democracy is a bit far-fetched for you to grasp.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    That's recent phenomena. The umbrella org of other secular groups pre-dated his adoption as representative.
    But, he's still the head honcho, which makes me doubt their motives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What's laughable is that this part of the world even comprehends what democracy is.

    They understand two things: absolute dictorship and Islamic military rule.

    Fyi, when you're allowed to beat your women in public, democracy is a bit far-fetched for you to grasp.
    Oh oh.
    You mean like how in the US Black people had little to no rights and were treated like sub humans up until a few decades ago.



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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    There is no democratic infrastructure in any Arab country. The Arab world has tried fascism, pan-Arab nationalism, socialism, and now Islamism. They have been in a Dark Age for centuries.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    But this is ridiculous.
    The one main reason there is not alot of opposition is because (in MANY cases) the Western backed dictators and tyrants have oppressed and suppressed any opposition politically and ensured their voice is the only one. If there is weakness in who should come to power or a legitimate opposition to Government. It is because it was deliberately done!

    What is highly amusing to observe. It is some of those countries which have a secular dictatorship, are the ones which are breeding more and more extremist ideas. Look at Tunisia, it is not a secular country. Islam is recognised, aspects of Sharia is recognised. Yet it has a secular society
    The Muslim brotherhood should have been included into talks decades ago, now it is too late. Hamas should have been incorporated years ago, now it is too late.
    Saudi Arabia is screwed anyway so who cares about that country.

    The point is that yes, many Muslims if they had a vote would choose to have a religious leaning Government but I do not think Egypt will be one of them.
    Fair points, all. But let's look at immigrant communities under democracies. No confrontation or battle of ideas seem to be taking place. No anecdotally, I can say that I know maybe 5 or 6 muslims and they are all mostly secular and liberal. They may adhere to strict islamic principles like eating halal meat and not dating or kissing non-muslims (to my infinite regret as Shahreen is absolutely wonderful!) but they don't pray 5 times a day. So perhaps the transformation happens quietly. I do find it interesting that most of the 9/11 terrorists came from immigrant communities and were highly educated in western schools. Does a liberal society with all of its constituent moral decadence promote a stronger Islamic movement than you may see in the ME?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Before 1941, the United States had a totally hands off policy. After WW2, they had learned a hard lesson from that policy and weren't going to make the same mistake twice.

    In 1937, we were like, "Let the Germans invade Austria. Let'em invade Czechoslovakia. Who cares?" But then, they invaded Poland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, France and were knocking on England's door. That's the perspective that they were viewing the world from.
    Good point. Not black and white at all. Oh that it were, we'd have nothing to argue about here at DP!

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Oh oh.
    You mean like how in the US Black people had little to no rights and were treated like sub humans up until a few decades ago.

    But, not anymore! Right??

    I think that's something else that's been blown out of proportion by the Libbos.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, he's still the head honcho, which makes me doubt their motives.
    That seems to also be the position of many protesters regarding ElBaradei. How the hell will they come up with some leaders to promote their democratization cause, if none of them can agree on more than "Mubarak must go and we need a new gov't/constitution"?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Good point. Not black and white at all. Oh that it were, we'd have nothing to argue about here at DP!
    That's-a-fact-jack...
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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