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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Yeah. Absolutely tragic.
    I wish it does continue to spread across ME and Africa.
    I'm kinda worried about Pakistan due to its proximity to Afghanistan but otherwise. I hope it spreads to Iran, Jordan and Syria
    Ok, sure. Power to the people. The only issue, which is what some of the folks here are concerned about, is that the dominant political organizations seem to be identified as Islamic and NOT as liberal. To my way of thinking, you got to let them get into power to transform their countries, then let liberalization take it's course. The only problem with that is that there is very infinitesimally tiny evidence that there is any liberalization movement going on, certainly not of the vigour needed to confront the Islamists. If fact, the Islamists never get confronted, in the ME or in immigrant communities in Europe or the US.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Stalin was not from the West.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, what was the alternative? Could we sit back and allow the Soviets to control all the countries in the ME? I think the ramifications of that would ended up costing the lives of millions. I guess there was always the option of invading the Soviet Union.
    The Soviets never would've gotten full control in the ME only in their wildest dreams. Nasserism and Pan-Arabism was the counter to Soviet Communism and Chinesse Maoism. Nasser and his followers viewed both of them as counter to Arab culture, there was Soviet influence but the Arab world refused to be the Soveit bootlick in the same guise as the Warsaw Pact.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    I thought you were onto something, until I saw that Elbaradei is in charge of the NAC. Sorry, but if has anything to do with it, I'm not sold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    The Soviets never would've gotten full control in the ME only in their wildest dreams. Nasserism and Pan-Arabism was the counter to Soviet Communism and Chinesse Maoism. Nasser and his followers viewed both of them as counter to Arab culture, there was Soviet influence but the Arab world refused to be the Soveit bootlick in the same guise as the Warsaw Pact.
    Maybe, maybe not, but in the 1950's, they didn't have hindsight to draw on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, what was the alternative? Could we sit back and allow the Soviets to control all the countries in the ME? I think the ramifications of that would ended up costing the lives of millions. I guess there was always the option of invading the Soviet Union.
    I am not convinced that there was only that binary choice. Truth was, we valued controllable and influencable allies much more than spreading democracy. We could have forced our despotic allies to democratize. That would have been a more consistent FP. Especially in the ME.


    Now, of course, this must be tempered by the fact that the number of democracies in the world flourished while we have been a superpower, and we certainly helped do that with soft power, i.e. foreign policy and economic policy and McDonalds and music and movies.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post


    Now being compared to Hitler. (Although I do appreciate that "not Muslims" part)

    Hitler and Stalin was Westerners. Heh, the same area of the world that has been the home of the worst atrocities in the world is the same area which seek to prevent other people in ME/Africa having a say in their own countries




    Heart breaking. I'll ponder that during my prayers
    Islamists have been committing atrocities in the name of Islam for over a thousand years. Let us not forget the Muslim units that served with the SS and killed millions in the Balkans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I thought you were onto something, until I saw that Elbaradei is in charge of the NAC. Sorry, but if has anything to do with it, I'm not sold.
    That's recent phenomena. The umbrella org of other secular groups pre-dated his adoption as representative.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, sure. Power to the people. The only issue, which is what some of the folks here are concerned about, is that the dominant political organizations seem to be identified as Islamic and NOT as liberal. To my way of thinking, you got to let them get into power to transform their countries, then let liberalization take it's course. The only problem with that is that there is very infinitesimally tiny evidence that there is any liberalization movement going on, certainly not of the vigour needed to confront the Islamists. If fact, the Islamists never get confronted, in the ME or in immigrant communities in Europe or the US.
    But this is ridiculous.
    The one main reason there is not alot of opposition is because (in MANY cases) the Western backed dictators and tyrants have oppressed and suppressed any opposition politically and ensured their voice is the only one. If there is weakness in who should come to power or a legitimate opposition to Government. It is because it was deliberately done!

    What is highly amusing to observe. It is some of those countries which have a secular dictatorship, are the ones which are breeding more and more extremist ideas. Look at Tunisia, it is not a secular country. Islam is recognised, aspects of Sharia is recognised. Yet it has a secular society
    The Muslim brotherhood should have been included into talks decades ago, now it is too late. Hamas should have been incorporated years ago, now it is too late.
    Saudi Arabia is screwed anyway so who cares about that country.

    The point is that yes, many Muslims if they had a vote would choose to have a religious leaning Government but I do not think Egypt will be one of them.
    Last edited by Laila; 02-01-11 at 09:21 PM.


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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    assuming this all works out relatively peacefully... what are the odds Obama takes credit for the resolution?

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