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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #61
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Back on Topic..

    In Egypt, protests show signs of cohesion
    By Sherine Bayoumi/Leila Fadel
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Thursday, January 27, 2011
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012607770.html

    CAIRO - The protesters who spilled onto Egypt's streets this week have given the opposition movement here characteristics that it long lacked: spontaneity and roots in many segments of society.

    The demonstrations, which continued Wednesday despite a strong police presence and hundreds of arrests, drew experienced activists and those who had never marched before. There were secularists, socialists and Islamists all walking together and demanding change with a unity that for years eluded Egypt's opposition.

    The new face of the opposition poses a significant challenge for President Hosni Mubarak, who has imposed sharp limits on his critics during his 30-year rule. Poor health has raised questions about Mubarak's ability to remain in office and prompted speculation that he is grooming his son to succeed him.

    Marina Ottaway, director of the Middle East program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington, said that there is "a great amount of discontent in Egypt" but that until now it had been "compartmentalized in three different movements" that didn't work together: a labor movement, a pro-democracy political movement and the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group.

    "Is there any indication the three groups are beginning to merge [in the demonstrations]? That is the crucial question," she said.

    Tuesday's protests were called for by a number of opposition groups through social media, which had drawn only a few dozen or few hundred people when they issued similar calls in the past. This week, only a few hundred people turned up at the start. But the numbers grew quickly, as Egyptians used social networking sites to organize and drew inspiration from the fall of President Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali this month in nearby Tunisia and, on Wednesday, by images of their own people defying Egypt's repressive police Tuesday.

    "The psychological barrier of fear has been broken," said Shadi Hamid, director of research for the Brookings Doha Center. "80 million Egyptians saw [Tuesday's protests]. They saw that it's okay to come out and that there is safety in numbers."

    Egyptians' anger has been simmering for years in this police state, where opportunities are scarce and the gap between the poor and a small elite is growing...
    Last edited by mbig; 01-27-11 at 03:49 AM.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    If there's basically a coup, I doubt the new government will honor Egypt's current treaties with Israel. That will increase tensions substantially. Not really a good situation in Egypt right now, not good at all.
    And if that happened, and the U.S. broke off relations due to sucha violation of international law, some on here would claim the U.S. is opposing democracy...
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    People are forgetting that in the Islamic world they don't overthrow dictatorships, but rather exchange one dictatorship with another.

    For example, in 1979 the Iranians have revolted against the Shah dictatorship and have overthrown it, only to exchange it with an Islamic dictatorship that has only taken more freedoms away from the public than the previous dictatorship had.

    Now in Tunisia, they've revolted against the Ben Ali tyranny, talking about becoming a democracy and ending the dictatorship in the nation. (And Tunisia is indeed one of the most westernized Islamic states in the world)
    However once they've gotten rid of the dictator what did they do? Started arresting his family members and anyone who would express support for him and his politics, including media workers and public officials.

    In Lebanon it's not even rioting against dictatorship, it's a purely political conflict between two sides. They're now going to be led by an Iranian/Syrian/Hezbollah (whatever you fancy more) government.

    In Egypt and Jordan the public may be arguing for more personal freedoms and a less oppressive regime, but you cannot really expect to see, in the case the regime is indeed overthrown, (and it won't be) a democratic regime taking its place. They'd merely exchange it with another dictatorship, another tyranny. Perhaps more Islamic, perhaps more tyrannical.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    People are forgetting that in the Islamic world they don't overthrow dictatorships, but rather exchange one dictatorship with another.

    For example, in 1979 the Iranians have revolted against the Shah dictatorship and have overthrown it, only to exchange it with an Islamic dictatorship that has only taken more freedoms away from the public than the previous dictatorship had.

    Now in Tunisia, they've revolted against the Ben Ali tyranny, talking about becoming a democracy and ending the dictatorship in the nation. (And Tunisia is indeed one of the most westernized Islamic states in the world)
    However once they've gotten rid of the dictator what did they do? Started arresting his family members and anyone who would express support for him and his politics, including media workers and public officials.

    In Lebanon it's not even rioting against dictatorship, it's a purely political conflict between two sides. They're now going to be led by an Iranian/Syrian/Hezbollah (whatever you fancy more) government.

    In Egypt and Jordan the public may be arguing for more personal freedoms and a less oppressive regime, but you cannot really expect to see, in the case the regime is indeed overthrown, (and it won't be) a democratic regime taking its place. They'd merely exchange it with another dictatorship, another tyranny. Perhaps more Islamic, perhaps more tyrannical.
    It is a worry indeed but what's going on in Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria is a popular uprising against corruption which resulted in social injustice and poverty among the population. I know that you don't like to hear this, but this is how the first intifada started as well, a popular uprising against the Israeli regime in which case the result was a corrupt PA an d which later led to the radical Hamas government in Gaza.

    I'm afraid this is what's going to happen in Egypt, perhaps a radical government and I certainly hope that I'm wrong.

    Tunisia is a very open-minded country, I still have hope that they will elect a fair government but I cannot name a single politician who can run a democratic country. Only time will tell.

    As to Lebanon, and I know what I'm talking about about, it is an even more open-minded country than Tunisia. The population will never accept an Islamic government, there's no way that that can happen unless there is a war with Israel in the future. Don't forget that the new PM is a Sunni supported by the Christian leader Michel Aoun and the Druze leader Walid Jumblat. He is already insisting on national unity and a close cooperation with Hariri who is refusing to participate in the future government. The new PM is simply not a Western ally. What I'm afraid of is a confrontation with Israel which will once again leave the country in shambles. if the new government will be able to avoid that, hats off. In any case, nobody in Lebanon wants a civil war. I'm only afraid that the valuable creative and active youth is going to immigrate to Western countries.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    As for Iran, do you truly believe that is a democracy?
    In comparison to where? In comparison to Saudi, it's a beacon of accountability and plurality. In comparison to Switzerland, maybe less so.
    I would like to see a genuine democracy in Egypt.
    Well of course, wouldn't we all, but it kind of depends on the kind of democracy you have in mind. Not everything that calls itself democracy is very democratic, not even in the West.


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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Inspired by Tunisia and Egypt, Yemenis join in anti-government protests

    Thousands of Yemenis took to the streets Thursday demanding an end to the government of President Ali Abdullah Saleh, who has ruled this impoverished Middle Eastern nation for more than three decades.

    The rally, one of the largest demonstrations this capital has seen in recent memory, unfolded in four different neighborhoods and was inspired by the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt.

    Yemen's unrest represents a widening of the upheavals unfolding across the Arab world. It poses yet another threat to the stability of this U.S. ally, which al-Qaeda militants are using as a base to target the West and its allies.

    "Look at Tunisia with pride," the crowds chanted. "Yemen has strong people, too.
    Inspired by Tunisia and Egypt, Yemenis join in anti-government protests



    It's like a domino effect


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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    People are forgetting that in the Islamic world they don't overthrow dictatorships, but rather exchange one dictatorship with another.

    For example, in 1979 the Iranians have revolted against the Shah dictatorship and have overthrown it, only to exchange it with an Islamic dictatorship that has only taken more freedoms away from the public than the previous dictatorship had.

    Now in Tunisia, they've revolted against the Ben Ali tyranny, talking about becoming a democracy and ending the dictatorship in the nation. (And Tunisia is indeed one of the most westernized Islamic states in the world)
    However once they've gotten rid of the dictator what did they do? Started arresting his family members and anyone who would express support for him and his politics, including media workers and public officials.

    In Lebanon it's not even rioting against dictatorship, it's a purely political conflict between two sides. They're now going to be led by an Iranian/Syrian/Hezbollah (whatever you fancy more) government.

    In Egypt and Jordan the public may be arguing for more personal freedoms and a less oppressive regime, but you cannot really expect to see, in the case the regime is indeed overthrown, (and it won't be) a democratic regime taking its place. They'd merely exchange it with another dictatorship, another tyranny. Perhaps more Islamic, perhaps more tyrannical.
    Perhaps. Not all revolutions against oppressive regimes are beneficial. But shouldn't we let the citizens of the country make that decision for themselves? I think that all we can do is to support democracy, insist that the revolutionaries hold elections, and hope for the best. If the new regime turns out to be repressive, we can stand with the democrats again...
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Inspired by Tunisia and Egypt, Yemenis join in anti-government protests

    It's like a domino effect
    Yemen is truly a frightening place. Unlike Egypt, where there is uncertainty of what kind of regime would emerge from the chaos, in Yemen I think it's pretty clear: In the best case scenario, they get a Taliban-style government. In the worst case scenario, they get a Somalia-style anarchy. Either way it's horrible. But I'm truly at a loss for what else we can do but support their desire for democracy. Yemen's government is also very weak, like Tunisia's...but without the educated and wealthy population.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yemen is truly a frightening place. Unlike Egypt, where there is uncertainty of what kind of regime would emerge from the chaos, in Yemen I think it's pretty clear: In the best case scenario, they get a Taliban-style government. In the worst case scenario, they get a Somalia-style anarchy. Either way it's horrible. But I'm truly at a loss for what else we can do but support their desire for democracy. Yemen's government is also very weak, like Tunisia's...but without the educated and wealthy population.
    Very very worrying and I don't disagree with your assessment.

    US should have seen this coming, especially with Yemen. It has been poor and the people have had grievances for decades. This could have been avoided


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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Egypt's ElBaradei ready for interim power

    Nobel peace laureate and leading dissident Mohamed ElBaradei said Thursday he was ready to "lead the transition" in Egypt if asked, as he left Vienna for Cairo where he was due to join in mass anti-government protests.

    "If people, in particularly young people, if they want me to lead the transition I will not let them down," ElBaradei, the former head of the UN nuclear watchdog, told journalists at Vienna airport.

    "My priority right now is to see a new Egypt and to see a new Egypt through peaceful transition," he added.

    ElBaradei was due to take part in mass demonstrations against President Hosni Mubarak's government on Friday.

    "I have to provide them with spiritual and political support," he said of the protesters.
    "My goal is obviously to make sure that things will go in an orderly and peaceful way... I am going there to be with them."

    Pro-democracy activists vowed on Thursday to step up the largest anti-government protests in Egypt in three decades, despite mass arrests and mammoth security.
    ElBaradei ready to 'lead the transition' in Egypt if asked

    Not quite the Islamist people feared but there is still time.


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