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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Obama failed utterly with regards to the Green Revolution. Lets at least do right by these people.

    I think many on the right need to come forward and be honest right now. Was Iraq about the desire and belief that we need to "spread democracy" and that removing despots in favor of democracy is good for people...or was it simply about our self interest.

    I think in general the United States should be supporting the will of people seeking a democracy. That does not mean we need to support the actual governmental figures they put in place if it works counter ot the United State's interests...that would be ridiculous. However, as a general stance, when placed between supporting dictatorships or democracy, the US should be given its support to the latter.

    I agree with earlier posts. You can't say you care about freedom and the well being of people while simultaneously refusing any instance of destablization. For massive regime change to legitimately and fully happen in such a way that its likely to stick a period of destablization is needed. However, something far more stable and far better can come from that period if you allow it.

    First steps first, I hope the Egyptian people can claim their freedom and push for their democracy. Its at that point I hope they choose the right individuals that will actually allow such ideals to continue legitimately rather than placing individuals into power who will simply manipulate the system to create a defacto-dictatorship within a handful of years once more.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What happens if you are wrong?
    Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

    If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    The Green Revolution in Iran was crushed by the Iranian Theocracy.
    It's still there, and it isn't over.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

    If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.
    The U.S. has been supporting this dictatorship for over 30 years so what has changed? Who fills the vacuum created by the removal of the govt? Who are some of the members of the Muslim Brotherhood and what happens if they fill that vacuum? Freedom and Democracy require discipline and leadership. Name for me one revolution in that part of the world that didn't end up with a radical Islam theology?

    Elections in Egypt were scheduled for September so why overthrow the govt. now?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

    If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.
    THANK YOU. I'm seriously tired of the fearmongering on this subject. It's time for a drastic revision of our foreign policy that is more in line with our core ethics and longterm goals.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

    If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.
    It helps if you understand that 93% of Egyptions dislike Israel. The Islamic Brotherhood is saying the expected thing. Kind of like when hardcore conservatives give lipservice to the abortion issue but have zero intention of actually changing the laws when they get into office. They're pandering to their base. That's all. Egyptian people don't like Israel, but they don't support going to war with Israel.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The U.S. has been supporting this dictatorship for over 30 years so what has changed?
    The U.S. has been supporting welfare for moer than 30 years. I take it then you're in favor of that continuing indefinitely too?

    Who fills the vacuum created by the removal of the govt?
    That's to be seen based on what the people of this country do with their won freedom. Its thier right to determine it.

    Who are some of the members of the Muslim Brotherhood and what happens if they fill that vacuum?
    If they fill it, then we deal with them as we would deal with any other country whose government may be against our aims. But we should not be stopping these people from attaining Democracy.

    Freedom and Democracy require discipline and leadership. Name for me one revolution in that part of the world that didn't end up with a radical Islam theology?
    How many revolutions in that part of the world have came about specifically due to a desire to have a democracy?

    And even if the end result IS a government that is counter to our goals, so be it. We deal with them like we deal with others. Now if that new governments goes against the peoples wishes and turns the Democracy into a dictatorship, then once again if the people rise up we should give them support.

    But simply be honest. Do you, and others that declare themselves on the right, give a **** about Democracy or do you give a crap about doing what's best for your political world view and what you think is best for us. If its the latter, so be it, but I don't want to hear this bull**** about how great it was we are "spreading democracy" and us giving the "iraqi's freedom" because its obvious that's bull****.

    Elections in Egypt were scheduled for September so why overthrow the govt. now?
    Because elections in Egypt are as legitimate as elections in Iran.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    It's still there, and it isn't over.
    This is where I get to ask you how you know that to be true. Link?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    There appear to be a lot of quasi-democrats quaking in their despotic little boots at the moment. Of course it's a worry that it's impossible to tell how this might all shake out, but if the dictatorial, corrupt oligarchs of the region are on their way out it cannot be a wholly negative turn of events.
    Unless they're replaced with something worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    THANK YOU. I'm seriously tired of the fearmongering on this subject. It's time for a drastic revision of our foreign policy that is more in line with our core ethics and longterm goals.
    On the flipside for you then Catz....were you one of those that was decrying the horrors and wrongness of the Iraqi War and how irresponsible it was for us to be trying to "spread democracy" and "bring freedom" to people?

    Its amazing how many people on both sides seem to be flip flopping. "OMG, we can't 'spread democracy', we should be worrying about ourselves not what others are doing" suddenly becomes "We can't support a dictator just because it helps ourselves, we should be helping people fight for democracy because that's what matters!". Meanwhile the other side is going "We must spread democracy, such governance protects us and its a basic human right to be free!" and now flipping "We need to keep supporting the dictator that helps us because their freedom may allow them to put into power people we don't like!"

    I hate people sometimes.

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