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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #331
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Oh.

    Hey, the big bad wolf was Soviet. Nobody in Europe or America cared about local populations as long as America was winning. But in all fairness, we didn't facilitate the civil war within. Arabs did this (notice how it's always the Sunni Arabs?). Such is the hypocracy of today's criticisms. But had we stayed to direct Afghanis we would have just been criticized for meddling in what wasn't our business anymore. But now, after the Cold War, we all have obligation whether we want to admit it or not. Europe created this mess. America maintained it. Now who's largely stuck alone with dealing with it? When it comes to Egypt, the entire world is interested in what America is going to do...not the French government, not the British government, not any other government. But there is one guarantee - no matter what we do we will be unfairly criticized for it while everybody else simply watched from afar safe from blame.

    I can assure you it raised a lot of ethical question marks on many European and probably American heads.

    The Americans and Soviets played a viscous game of tug of war without any regard for the rope. Now we have a country in shatters. I dont see what is so special about Afghanistan - or special enough - that they would think funding terrorism at the expense of the local population who had been ruled by a socialist figure anyway was a necessary evil.

    I do think Afghanistan is a victim of invasive meddling by many nations, not just the US.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  2. #332
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You didn't even post a link, dude.
    Its history, there isn't just one source, search it up.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 01-29-11 at 09:05 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  3. #333
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not if you still believe that the US created the Taliban.
    She's not saying that.

    What we did was facilitate the "military" power base that defied the Soviets via our advice and funding. Saudi Arabia sent trained religious warriors (who were educated to combat Iranian extremism) to Afghanistan to fight for the Muslim people. The Taliban was an unintended consequence that we did not create. However, we did move on and forget about them as they went on to fight a brutal civil war amongst themselves and with the local Afghan tribes and eventually they emerged Tali-Ban strong. They went on to celebrate their doctrinal religious education (taliban = students) and forced it upon the people that they originally fought for against the Soviets. After 9/11, we would go back and say hello while so much of the world criticized us for "creating" them in the first place, thereby deserving 9/11.

    I can barely keep up with the world's idea on why we should be blamed for everything.

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  4. #334
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    She's not saying that.
    << Does that look like a "she"


    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  5. #335
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I can barely keep up with the world's idea on why we should be blamed for everything.
    Oh come on, your not seriously denying the CIA aided the Mujahideen, forget the Taliban.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  6. #336
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    I can assure you it raised a lot of ethical question marks on many European and probably American heads.

    The Americans and Soviets played a viscous game of tug of war without any regard for the rope. Now we have a country in shatters. I dont see what is so special about Afghanistan - or special enough - that they would think funding terrorism at the expense of the local population who had been ruled by a socialist figure anyway was a necessary evil.

    I do think Afghanistan is a victim of invasive meddling by many nations, not just the US.
    The Soviet invasion into Afghanistan had everything to do with the British. During the colonial period (and before there was a Pakistan) the Russians and the British fought over this territory both believing that it could be a buffer against each other's colonial territory. The borders are a result of these two colonial powers (and China in the 1960s) and in the 1970s the sphere of influence was threatening the Soviet ideas of this "buffer" nation.

    Today, they still consider themselves members of tribes in their age old territory rather than "Afghanis."

    Of course, going back to Alexander, Afghanistan has always been a source for invasions....

    1) 331-326 BC - Alexander

    2) 652 AD - Sunni Islam

    3) 1220 - 1504 AD - Mongols

    4) 1504 - 1747 AD - Babur and the Moguls

    Between these periods they never settled into a system of unified government until the Father of Afghanistan in 1747 AD managed to unite the tribes into confederation for a short period.

    5) 1838 - 1842 AD - First Anglo-Afghan War

    6) 1878 - 1880 AD - Second Anglo-Afghan War

    7) 1919 - 1921 AD - Third Anglo-Afghan War

    8) 1979 - 1989 AD - Soviet invasion

    9) 2001 - ? AD - Post 9/11.

    In the last few hundred years, Afghanistan was used as a buffer nation between the colonial powers. Since the tribes were split up between the borders, each colonial power had to deal with the dynamics.

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  7. #337
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Oh come on, your not seriously denying the CIA aided the Mujahideen, forget the Taliban.
    Well, of course not. But the CIA didn't prescribe social prescription. This was a war. The Mujahideen are victims of their own culture. We would have easil'y just used the not so religious warriors if that was what this culture produced.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    << Does that look like a "she"


    Sorry about that.

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  9. #339
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    The Soviet invasion into Afghanistan had everything to do with the British. During the colonial period (and before there was a Pakistan) the Russians and the British fought over this territory both believing that it could be a buffer against each other's colonial territory. The borders are a result of these two colonial powers (and China in the 1960s) and in the 1970s the sphere of influence was threatening the Soviet ideas of this "buffer" nation.

    Today, they still consider themselves members of tribes in their age old territory rather than "Afghanis."

    Of course, going back to Alexander, Afghanistan has always been a source for invasions....

    1) 331-326 BC - Alexander

    2) 652 AD - Sunni Islam

    3) 1220 - 1504 AD - Mongols

    4) 1504 - 1747 AD - Babur and the Moguls

    Between these periods they never settled into a system of unified government until the Father of Afghanistan in 1747 AD managed to unite the tribes into confederation for a short period.

    5) 1838 - 1842 AD - First Anglo-Afghan War

    6) 1878 - 1880 AD - Second Anglo-Afghan War

    7) 1919 - 1921 AD - Third Anglo-Afghan War

    8) 1979 - 1989 AD - Soviet invasion

    9) 2001 - ? AD - Post 9/11.

    In the last few hundred years, Afghanistan was used as a buffer nation between the colonial powers. Since the tribes were split up between the borders, each colonial power had to deal with the dynamics.
    The US isn't a colonial power with major territory in Asia. Its primary goal was curbing the rise of communism and that goal had its roots in Europe and the Asia pacific region - in other words, close neighbors and areas of strategic and economic interest. The best buffer was Iran, Turkey, Germany and Arab states including those in North Africa. I still find the attention it received unjustifiable.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 01-29-11 at 09:29 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  10. #340
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    She's not saying that.

    What we did was facilitate the "military" power base that defied the Soviets via our advice and funding. Saudi Arabia sent trained religious warriors (who were educated to combat Iranian extremism) to Afghanistan to fight for the Muslim people. The Taliban was an unintended consequence that we did not create. However, we did move on and forget about them as they went on to fight a brutal civil war amongst themselves and with the local Afghan tribes and eventually they emerged Tali-Ban strong. They went on to celebrate their doctrinal religious education (taliban = students) and forced it upon the people that they originally fought for against the Soviets. After 9/11, we would go back and say hello while so much of the world criticized us for "creating" them in the first place, thereby deserving 9/11.

    I can barely keep up with the world's idea on why we should be blamed for everything.
    I said,

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This is the biggest problem. People hate America, mostly, because they're uninformed.

    The United States never supported the Taliban during the Afghan-Soviet War. UBL never worked for the CIA.

    If you want to complain about what the United States did wrong in Afghanistan, you would be more accurate to say that we didn't maintain our support for the Northern Alliance. Had we done that, the NA could have wiped out the Taliban.
    Then, she said that I was wrong about all of the, right here,

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Sorry, the misinformed one is you. The US DID aid terrorists, even if you don't think they did it back then, Washington's decision in May 2001 to financially reward Afghanistan's infamous Taliban government for its edict ordering a halt to the cultivation of opium poppies is just another example...

    Sure, they just rewarded the "Afghan government" a large stipend, which is strange....considering the government there didn't enforce the policy but the Taliban did, and it was obvious by then the Taliban received much help via redirected foreign aid.

    The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. There are many sources to prove you wrong and it is unfortunate you have instead chosen to revise what really happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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