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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #291
    onomatopoeic
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Obama is now totally responsible for the defense of American interests in Egypt and the Greater Middle East. There is zero tolerance for any error. Any mistake will become a campaign issue in 2012.
    OK Albert.
    You're up!
    As I said to Zyroh earlier in the string: "Prez for an hour".

    Precisely what should Obama do now?
    With Contingencies/What-ifs if it helps.
    Last edited by mbig; 01-29-11 at 06:48 PM.
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  2. #292
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Obama is now totally responsible for the defense of American interests in Egypt and the Greater Middle East. There is zero tolerance for any error. Any mistake will become a campaign issue in 2012.

    What exactly would you like him to do? Or are you just being an ethnocentric partisan troll?
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  3. #293
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    OK Albert.
    You're up!
    As I said to Zyroh earlier in the string... "Prez for an hour".

    Precisely what should Obama do now?
    I'm glad you asked me.

    1) He needs to continue to play it safe, but with more emphases on future democracy in the public's eye. However, he needs to be in contact with the pharaoh to inform him that if he manages to hold on that he has to prescribe governmental and social change thereby allowing us to preach into the microphones for the people to hear and resume our business deals.

    2) On another level, President Clinton changed the policy of our regional commanders (then called CinCs.) He recognized his inability to understand this region. He acknowledged that in the realm of foriegn policy, no one could understand the former generals and military leaders of these nations like our own generals who have worked with them before. And since these former generals and leaders were now "presidents" it made sense. If our Pentagon makes contact with the Egyptian commanders (probably already have), then they can pave the way of mutual understanding between our nations. With their military having the affections of their people (who want democracy - not Sharia), we can be assured a contuned ally in Egypt after Mubarak.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-29-11 at 06:53 PM.

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  4. #294
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Those who ignore history will insist on the friendly dictator for fear that all the Middle East is like Iran. Of course, history has shown us that they are not all Iran and that the friendly dictator encourages the "foriegn devil" blame game used so extensivley by this civlization. It's a clear cut case of misunderstanding the cultures within and thereby doomed to keep repeating history.

    I told you that we have very close ties between our militaries. With the Egyptian military keeping the faith of the people, we have our influence and they have their guarantee away from religious rule.
    Really, history has shown that? Lebanon, Gaza, Iran, Tunesia? If you are wrong, then what? Who is going to fill the vacuum left by the overthrow of the govt? Radical Islam is a three step process, one overthrow the existing govt, two, install a weak central govt that is underfunded and weak on leadership, then three overthrow that govt by a well funded Islamic regime that throws money at the people and buys their loyalty.

    As was reported today, Marc Ginsberg, Carter's Middle East expert and Clinton's Ambassador to Morocco, hardly a conservative or rightwing nut, said he supported the ouster of the Shah but now realizes that was wrong and look at what we ended up with. That overthrow began just like Egypt's. He said that history is going to repeat himself and this is a liberal expert on the Middle East. What do you know that he doesn't?

  5. #295
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    This is not gonna end in the way we want it.. The Muslim Brotherhood have seen their chance and are going to seize if they can and that will be very very bad for everyone.
    That is one of several possible outcomes, though were I a betting man, sadly I would have to agree that this one is more likely than the others...
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    No.
    It is bad for US and Western Interests.

    If Egypt wants a Muslim brotherhood led Government. They damn well should have that right and it is not for us to intrude on that right. If the Islamists were brought to the table years ago, I doubt it would have been half as bad. This is the result of oppression.
    I have no idea what it is about democracy the West hates so much, it seems to oppose it when it doesn't have the results they like. Almost as if saying democracy is good for us but bad for you. So you can have a dictatorship.
    But that can only be determined through a free, fair and transparant election... Do you think the Muslim Brotherhood would consent to that?
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Really, history has shown that?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    If you are wrong, then what?
    I'm not.


    Your mistake continues to be orientalism. Take into consideration where Iran's mood was in 1979. They hated us because we were absolutely physically present and much of the revolution was centered around getting rid of us. And just what do you think the distinct mood is around the Israeli environment? None of this reflects on Egypt's mood.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-29-11 at 07:00 PM.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I'm glad you asked me.

    1) He needs to continue to play it safe, but with more emphases on future democracy in the public's eye. However, he needs to be in contact with the pharaoh to inform him that if he manages to hold on that he has to prescribe governmental and social change.
    Always like your posts MSgt.

    Obama is already doing that-- and it seems Tut is doing as advised too. 'Listening to the people' is what he ostensibly doing with this new Cabinet.

    2) On another level, President Clinton changed the policy of our regional commanders (then called CinCs.) He recognized his inability to understand this region. He acknowledged that in the realm of foriegn policy, no one could understand the former generals and military leaders of these nations like our own generals who have worked with them before. And since these former generals and leaders were now "presidents" it made sense. If our Pentagon makes contact with the Egyptian commanders (probably already have), then they can pave the way of mutual understanding between our nations. With their military having the affections of their people (who want democracy - not Sharia), we can be assured a contuned ally in Egypt after Mubarak.
    This is a good point.
    Our generals are their suppliers and trainers.
    That's the big 'in' as it's the Military who many are saying really control the day.
    Should they switch loyalties from the King Tut to their Brethren, it's over.

    But our military, and POTUS, may not want them to switch unless the demos become overwhelming and the situation yet worse.
    It's a big strategic gamble (and almost certain loss of varying degree) rolling the 'whos your leader' dice.
    Last edited by mbig; 01-29-11 at 07:03 PM.
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  9. #299
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    OK Albert.
    You're up!
    As I said to Zyroh earlier in the string... "Prez for an hour".

    Precisely what should Obama do now?
    With Contingencies/What-ifs if it helps.
    I do not have Obama's best interests at heart. I do not have the American Left's best interests at heart. I have been radicalized by the Left. Political nihilism is the path that I am on. Michael Moore, Harry Reid and a host of other leftists have established the precedent that foreign policy crises can be used for domestic political purposes. Once established, the precedent remains in effect. They introduced a deadly toxin into the bloodstream of the body politic. As a result America is paralyzed. That's fine with me. Over the precipice we go together.

    The skill set required to achieve electoral victory in America is entirely different from the skill set needed to govern successfully. It should be obvious that Obama has no more experience in foreign policy than the local plumber. His advisors are all from a very narrow slice of the Democratic Party. He needs better advisors imo.

    But I can suspend my antipathy in order to treat this issue soberly. Time dictates that I shoot from the hip.

    Obama needs to make a choice. He can be reelected or he can try to save the country. For the sake of argument let us assume that he chooses to try to save the country. In that event he should adopt short term, medium term and long term objectives.

    Obama must recognize that America is broke, is no longer capable of maintaining the web of institutional and other relationships that constitute the American Empire, and that the political and other divisions in the country prevent effective action.

    Long Term Objective: Abandon his reliance on the Liberal Internationalist School of Foreign Policy. Withdraw from the eastern hemisphere completely except for normal trade. Slash the American military to the bone. Renew the American economy and people.

    Mid Term Objective: America must accommodate the nascent Iranian Empire because American internal political paralysis prevents America from coping effectively with Iranian strategy and tactics. If they stay out of the western hemisphere we will withdraw from and stay out of the eastern hemisphere.

    Short Term Objective: Quietly get all Americans out of Egypt. Say very little. Liquidate American investments in Egypt and the Greater Middle East. Let events in Egypt take their own course. American foreign policy has embittered the Egyptian people. Because of that this will not turn out well for America. Imo there will either be a military coup in Egypt or there will be a revolution which will be coopted by the Muslim Brotherhood. GTFO ASAP.

  10. #300
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    But that can only be determined through a free, fair and transparant election... Do you think the Muslim Brotherhood would consent to that?
    Considering the overwhelming drive of the people and somewhat "backing" of the military...they don't have a choice. And this is what the fear mongering analysts seem to dismiss in their haste to celebrate their petrified state over instability.

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