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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #281
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    No it's not "exactly" what is happening in Egypt. C'mon. Turn your CNN and FOX off (I'm hearing the same BS from the same ignorant narrow minded fools you are). The intellectuals of Iran placed all their hopes on the religious movement because that was the bold opposition. They backed a horse (Khomeini) that they thought they could control and many of them wound up executed for it after the fact when they discovered that they were wrong.

    There is no religious "horse" rallying the Egyptian people and no intellectual backing of him. This is a mob scene that is absolutely focused on future democracy and the fact that their political demands have been heard coming out of other societies throughout the region for years, unites these Arab people above the sentiment of Islamist environment. The fact that Islamists exist within the crowd does not mean that "Khoemeini" is back. These are the Sunni for one, not Shia. It is true that virtually all of our religious extremist foes over the last 20 years have ben Sunni Arabs, but it was the Sunni who began their "government" through a sense of democracy after Muhammad died.

    What you are seeing on television by dimwitted American analysts who have never set foot in to the region is the same sense of petrified fear you saw when the Soviet Union crumbled. We spent decades trying to crack the Soviet Union apart and when it finally did, we rushed to hold them up for of instability. We preach and preach about the dictators and religious regimes of the Middle East, but rush to criticize anything that threatens to destabilize the region. We are doing the same thing now with Egypt as we weigh the options of supporting the given government or supporting the people who may have to go through some destabilization to achieve true stability.

    I say we should begin praising this kind of de-stabilization and **** all those who wish to criticize out of a fear of instability. No great or progressive nation rose without working out a period of de-stabilization. Why we continue to preach for change in the Middle East, but quickly default to caution and a want to go back once we get uncomfortable with it is beyond me. It's win/win for us. We support the people. If they win, we win. If they lose, Mubarak will continue to do business with the most powerful economy and influence in the world. If we do not support these people morally with conviction and volume, then we deserve the hypocritical criticisms we receive from Europeans and other global Leftists.

    Our best move (I would assume that Pentagon officials have my brain), is to allow our military commanders to contact the Egyptian military commanders. This will guarantee our position in whatever future.
    It might help if you paid more attention to history and maybe even Fox to find out what is going on in Egypt. Who governs Egypt when the govt. fails? Think about it.

  2. #282
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    No it's not "exactly" what is happening in Egypt. C'mon. Turn your CNN and FOX off (I'm hearing the same BS from the same ignorant narrow minded fools you are). The intellectuals of Iran placed all their hopes on the religious movement because that was the bold opposition. They backed a horse (Khomeini) that they thought they could control and many of them wound up executed for it after the fact when they discovered that they were wrong.

    There is no religious "horse" rallying the Egyptian people and no intellectual backing of him. This is a mob scene that is absolutely focused on future democracy and the fact that their political demands have been heard coming out of other societies throughout the region for years, unites these Arab people above the sentiment of Islamist environment. The fact that Islamists exist within the crowd does not mean that "Khoemeini" is back. These are the Sunni for one, not Shia. It is true that virtually all of our religious extremist foes over the last 20 years have ben Sunni Arabs, but it was the Sunni who began their "government" through a sense of democracy after Muhammad died.

    What you are seeing on television by dimwitted American analysts who have never set foot in to the region is the same sense of petrified fear you saw when the Soviet Union crumbled. We spent decades trying to crack the Soviet Union apart and when it finally did, we rushed to hold them up for of instability. We preach and preach about the dictators and religious regimes of the Middle East, but rush to criticize anything that threatens to destabilize the region. We are doing the same thing now with Egypt as we weigh the options of supporting the given government or supporting the people who may have to go through some destabilization to achieve true stability.

    I say we should begin praising this kind of de-stabilization and **** all those who wish to criticize out of a fear of instability. No great or progressive nation rose without working out a period of de-stabilization. Why we continue to preach for change in the Middle East, but quickly default to caution and a want to go back once we get uncomfortable with it is beyond me. It's win/win for us. We support the people. If they win, we win. If they lose, Mubarak will continue to do business with the most powerful economy and influence in the world. If we do not support these people morally with conviction and volume, then we deserve the hypocritical criticisms we receive from Europeans and other global Leftists.

    Our best move (I would assume that Pentagon officials have my brain), is to allow our military commanders to contact the Egyptian military commanders. This will guarantee our position in whatever future.
    Tell me this isn't happening in Egypt

    The people of Iran wanted a duly elected, civil government, and still do. The vast majority of rioters and protestors in Iran were not Islamic radicals. All it takes are a few well placed radical leaders blending in with the populace to take control when the void occurs. They claim power in the name of the people. They swear to have immediate elections as soon as possible and things calm down. They take control of the military and the police and before the people know it, the extremists are running the country.

    That happened in Iran and will happen in Egypt as HUGE amounts of money and support from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Iran and other Arab Muslim nations will pour in.

    That money will go to the religious leaders who will prop up the econmomy and look like heroes. They will remain in power and be convert Egypt into another religious Islamic state.

  3. #283
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It might help if you paid more attention to history and maybe even Fox to find out what is going on in Egypt. Who governs Egypt when the govt. fails? Think about it.
    How about the democratic leaning leader that was jailed and sparked the Egyptian fury in the first place? How about the shop keeper on the corner? The point is that their military (of which ours has a great relationship with) will not allow Islamists to create an Arab "Iran." The vast majority of all of these people are made up of non-Islamists.

    How dare you and any other Western orientalist assume that only in the West we can demand better and embark on a bumpy road to achieve it. Virtually all of us began out of revolution or rebellion. The only difference is that there wasn't a part of the world that prefered "stability" at all cost and would rather secretly see the dictator making them behave in their oppressions. Our long term security has never been assured by dictators. Only Democracies are fluid and without disruption. It's time we started living up to our own standards for the rest of the world and stopped pretending that the immediate gratifications that dictators supply isn't harmful.

    As you can see, I'm not only well versed in the history of this region, but I also have enough real world experience to know better so let's not assume that you have something that will "help me" out of my "ignorance." Especially when you use TV as a guide through this world and assume to derive "wisdom" from it. Fear, bad news, and ignorant shallow analysis will always seek an audience. I've been to Egypt? You?

    You think about it.... You see, you aren't paying attention to history. You are paying attention to TV. Before all of this, you wouldn't have the idea about the "doom" that must to follow. Without television analysts covering every angle and focusing solely on the possible negatives, you wouldn'thave such a focus onthe possible negatives. This is not paying attention to history. It's current events with safe (bad) analysis.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-29-11 at 05:49 PM.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Tell me this isn't happening in Egypt
    I just did. And when it doesn't quite turn out for you, I fully expect you to simply move on without learning anything and eager to jump on the next televised event where bad analyst are again producing fear and safe negative reports.

    But what if they do put in a dictator or some religious nut? What if they do manage to defy what they are seeking? How are they not allowed to experiment their way to democracy the same way the mighty French and so many others did? If you want to play it safe, then prop up a friendly dictator. Of course, this does little for our long term security and religious people tend to go extreme and seek nonsesical blame don't they? Egypt's history is clear. The Muslim Bortherhood is grass rooted here. The Islamist's greatest zealot influences have ceom from authors from whithin Egypt. But today's Egypt is far from the Egypt of the '50s and thanks to globalization, they no longer receive their influence solely from the local Mullah or Imam. From Iraqis, to Iranians, to Tunisians, to Egyptians, and from all of the political rumblings in every single Arab nation along the way we see modernists...not Islamist.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-29-11 at 05:52 PM.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I just did. And when it doesn't quite turn out for you, I fully expect you to simply move on without learning anything and eager to jump on the next televised event where bad analyst are again producing fear and safe negative reports.
    I have seen no evidence of you even reading let alone respond to what I posted. It is so simplistic for you, simply overthrow the govt. and all will be well. How did Lebanon, Gaza, Iran turn out for you? Incrementalism isn't something you understand at all. First overthrow the govt, second form a new govt. based upon free principles and free enterprise, then watch that govt. get overthrown because of poor leadership, poor education by radical Islam who will step in and implement another Islamic state. The ultimate goal achieved all because of naive people like you.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have seen no evidence of you even reading let alone respond to what I posted. It is so simplistic for you, simply overthrow the govt. and all will be well. How did Lebanon, Gaza, Iran turn out for you? Incrementalism isn't something you understand at all. First overthrow the govt, second form a new govt. based upon free principles and free enterprise, then watch that govt. get overthrown because of poor leadership, poor education by radical Islam who will step in and implement another Islamic state. The ultimate goal achieved all because of naive people like you.
    'if you can't spot the fool, it's probably you'

    warn me if you must, but this guy is spouting more dangerous garbage than me calling him out on it.

    this 'totalitarian oppression is need to keep the evil islamists out of government' foreign policy you're advocating is fascist nazism. you're a national socialist, you just don't realize it. you don't even know what conservative ideology is about. don't worry i don't blame you. surely it's william f buckley and his protege rush limbaugh's fault. wipe away the fear for have a minute and you'll see your folly.
    Last edited by Zyroh; 01-29-11 at 06:00 PM.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    'if you can't spot the fool, it's probably you'

    warn me if you must, but this guy is spouting more dangerous garbage than me calling him out on it.

    this 'totalitarian oppression is need to keep the evil islamists out of government' foreign policy you're advocating is fascist nazism. you're a national socialist, you just don't realize it. you don't even know what conservative ideology is about. don't worry i don't blame you. surely it's william f buckley and his protege rush limbaugh's fault. wipe away the fear for have a minute and you'll see your folly.
    Someone want to interpret this post for me? I think I have been called a national socialist. ROFLMAO! Looks to me like another intellectual elitist who is out of touch with reality and over analyzes issues and then jumps to the wrong conclusions. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Egypt will be Iran 2 just like Obama is Carter 2.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have seen no evidence of you even reading let alone respond to what I posted. It is so simplistic for you, simply overthrow the govt. and all will be well.
    You posted regurgitated crap from TV. And I've stated nothing of the sort. I have, however, warned you of your fear of change and the idea that instability only leads to bad things. The trick to proper analysis is to understand culture and too many of our own analysts don't. This is what happens when we spend 50 years teaching them how to produce analysis from satellite imagry. The few morons you heard on TV are playing it safe and because of this, we begin to assume that it's the favorable dictator or nothing.

    Lebanon and Gaza are very distinct local issues that have spent decades being tampered with by the rest of the Arab/Persian civilization. They have been largely radicalized over the Israeli issue. And Iran.... is not Arab. Until you have a grasp of this region, you simply will never grow past the idea that they are all the same on every level. This is called Orientalism.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
    Those who ignore history will insist on the friendly dictator for fear that all the Middle East is like Iran. Of course, history has shown us that they are not all Iran and that the friendly dictator encourages the "foriegn devil" blame game used so extensivley by this civlization. It's a clear cut case of misunderstanding the cultures within and thereby doomed to keep repeating history.

    I told you that we have very close ties between our militaries. With the Egyptian military keeping the faith of the people, we have our influence and they have their guarantee away from religious rule.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-29-11 at 06:31 PM.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Obama is now totally responsible for the defense of American interests in Egypt and the Greater Middle East. There is zero tolerance for any error. Any mistake will become a campaign issue in 2012.

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