• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

Yea I love how Al Jazeera is still sending despite it being officially kicked from the country.

Overthrowing the govt. has its potential consequences. Wonder how many people here really support the Muslim Brotherhood and the total elimination of Israel? Overthrowing the govt. is a lot easier than addressing what comes next.

Muslim Brotherhood: ‘Prepare Egyptians for war with Israel'

By YAAKOV LAPPIN
02/01/2011 02:00

A leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt told the Arabic-language Iranian news network Al-Alam on Monday that he would like to see the Egyptian people prepare for war against Israel, according to the Hebrew-language business newspaper Calcalist.
 
Overthrowing the govt. has its potential consequences. Wonder how many people here really support the Muslim Brotherhood and the total elimination of Israel? Overthrowing the govt. is a lot easier than addressing what comes next.

Muslim Brotherhood: ‘Prepare Egyptians for war with Israel'

By YAAKOV LAPPIN
02/01/2011 02:00

A leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt told the Arabic-language Iranian news network Al-Alam on Monday that he would like to see the Egyptian people prepare for war against Israel, according to the Hebrew-language business newspaper Calcalist.

A lot of this is rhetoric. I don't believe that the Muslim Brotherhood has the power to bring this about.
 
Obama failed utterly with regards to the Green Revolution. Lets at least do right by these people.

I think many on the right need to come forward and be honest right now. Was Iraq about the desire and belief that we need to "spread democracy" and that removing despots in favor of democracy is good for people...or was it simply about our self interest.

I think in general the United States should be supporting the will of people seeking a democracy. That does not mean we need to support the actual governmental figures they put in place if it works counter ot the United State's interests...that would be ridiculous. However, as a general stance, when placed between supporting dictatorships or democracy, the US should be given its support to the latter.

I agree with earlier posts. You can't say you care about freedom and the well being of people while simultaneously refusing any instance of destablization. For massive regime change to legitimately and fully happen in such a way that its likely to stick a period of destablization is needed. However, something far more stable and far better can come from that period if you allow it.

First steps first, I hope the Egyptian people can claim their freedom and push for their democracy. Its at that point I hope they choose the right individuals that will actually allow such ideals to continue legitimately rather than placing individuals into power who will simply manipulate the system to create a defacto-dictatorship within a handful of years once more.
 
What happens if you are wrong?

Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.
 
Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.

The U.S. has been supporting this dictatorship for over 30 years so what has changed? Who fills the vacuum created by the removal of the govt? Who are some of the members of the Muslim Brotherhood and what happens if they fill that vacuum? Freedom and Democracy require discipline and leadership. Name for me one revolution in that part of the world that didn't end up with a radical Islam theology?

Elections in Egypt were scheduled for September so why overthrow the govt. now?
 
Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.

THANK YOU. I'm seriously tired of the fearmongering on this subject. It's time for a drastic revision of our foreign policy that is more in line with our core ethics and longterm goals.
 
Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.

It helps if you understand that 93% of Egyptions dislike Israel. The Islamic Brotherhood is saying the expected thing. Kind of like when hardcore conservatives give lipservice to the abortion issue but have zero intention of actually changing the laws when they get into office. They're pandering to their base. That's all. Egyptian people don't like Israel, but they don't support going to war with Israel.
 
The U.S. has been supporting this dictatorship for over 30 years so what has changed?

The U.S. has been supporting welfare for moer than 30 years. I take it then you're in favor of that continuing indefinitely too?

Who fills the vacuum created by the removal of the govt?

That's to be seen based on what the people of this country do with their won freedom. Its thier right to determine it.

Who are some of the members of the Muslim Brotherhood and what happens if they fill that vacuum?

If they fill it, then we deal with them as we would deal with any other country whose government may be against our aims. But we should not be stopping these people from attaining Democracy.

Freedom and Democracy require discipline and leadership. Name for me one revolution in that part of the world that didn't end up with a radical Islam theology?

How many revolutions in that part of the world have came about specifically due to a desire to have a democracy?

And even if the end result IS a government that is counter to our goals, so be it. We deal with them like we deal with others. Now if that new governments goes against the peoples wishes and turns the Democracy into a dictatorship, then once again if the people rise up we should give them support.

But simply be honest. Do you, and others that declare themselves on the right, give a **** about Democracy or do you give a crap about doing what's best for your political world view and what you think is best for us. If its the latter, so be it, but I don't want to hear this bull**** about how great it was we are "spreading democracy" and us giving the "iraqi's freedom" because its obvious that's bull****.

Elections in Egypt were scheduled for September so why overthrow the govt. now?

Because elections in Egypt are as legitimate as elections in Iran.
 
There appear to be a lot of quasi-democrats quaking in their despotic little boots at the moment. Of course it's a worry that it's impossible to tell how this might all shake out, but if the dictatorial, corrupt oligarchs of the region are on their way out it cannot be a wholly negative turn of events.

Unless they're replaced with something worse.
 
THANK YOU. I'm seriously tired of the fearmongering on this subject. It's time for a drastic revision of our foreign policy that is more in line with our core ethics and longterm goals.

On the flipside for you then Catz....were you one of those that was decrying the horrors and wrongness of the Iraqi War and how irresponsible it was for us to be trying to "spread democracy" and "bring freedom" to people?

Its amazing how many people on both sides seem to be flip flopping. "OMG, we can't 'spread democracy', we should be worrying about ourselves not what others are doing" suddenly becomes "We can't support a dictator just because it helps ourselves, we should be helping people fight for democracy because that's what matters!". Meanwhile the other side is going "We must spread democracy, such governance protects us and its a basic human right to be free!" and now flipping "We need to keep supporting the dictator that helps us because their freedom may allow them to put into power people we don't like!"

I hate people sometimes.
 
Then they go to war, likely with Israel soundly defeating them by themselves if not with the help of allies.

If you're wrong then the US needlessly continues to support a dictatorship and continues to be an enemy to democracy and freedom in that land.

What if you're wrong? The Islamic Army defeats the IDF, slaughters hundreds of thousands of Israelis, closes the Suez Canal and the Straits of Hormuz and holds the world hostage.
 
This is where I get to ask you how you know that to be true. Link?

For one thing, we have an iranian who posts on this board who's still involved. It's underground, not in the streets, but the desire of the Iranian people for freedom and democracy continues to exist.
 
On the flipside for you then Catz....were you one of those that was decrying the horrors and wrongness of the Iraqi War and how irresponsible it was for us to be trying to "spread democracy" and "bring freedom" to people?

Actually, no. I supported it initially. I'm not anti-war and I felt there were legitimate reasons to remove Hussein from power. However, i feel that the aftermath was poorly executed and planned, and I'm not a fan of Bush's position on torture.
 
Last edited:
What if you're wrong? The Islamic Army defeats the IDF, slaughters hundreds of thousands of Israelis, closes the Suez Canal and the Straits of Hormuz and holds the world hostage.

Highly unlikely. Israel is likely to nuke Egypt before this would happen. Israel holds a tactical and weapons advantage.
 
Last edited:
Zyphlin;1059257752]The U.S. has been supporting welfare for moer than 30 years. I take it then you're in favor of that continuing indefinitely too?

Indefinitely? Elections scheduled for Sept. 2011 in Egypt


That's to be seen based on what the people of this country do with their won freedom. Its thier right to determine it.

I asked what if you are wrong. Who fills the vacuum of leadership in Egypt?


If they fill it, then we deal with them as we would deal with any other country whose government may be against our aims. But we should not be stopping these people from attaining Democracy.

Right, just like we have dealt with Iran. Are the people better off in Iran than they were prior to radical Islam taking over? It is a lot easier protesting for your freedom than it is actually getting your freedom. Think that Iranians are free?

How many revolutions in that part of the world have came about specifically due to a desire to have a democracy?

And even if the end result IS a government that is counter to our goals, so be it. We deal with them like we deal with others. Now if that new governments goes against the peoples wishes and turns the Democracy into a dictatorship, then once again if the people rise up we should give them support.

Every revolution in the region started out with the demand for freedom and democracy and look who stepped in. I suggest better research on racial Islam and their goal

But simply be honest. Do you, and others that declare themselves on the right, give a **** about Democracy or do you give a crap about doing what's best for your political world view and what you think is best for us. If its the latter, so be it, but I don't want to hear this bull**** about how great it was we are "spreading democracy" and us giving the "iraqi's freedom" because its obvious that's bull****.

I care about the security of this country and stopping radical Islam. What exactly do you care about?

Because elections in Egypt are as legitimate as elections in Iran.

You think the elections in Iraq were legitimate? So in your world then you overthrow the govt. to create what?
 
What if you're wrong? The Islamic Army defeats the IDF, slaughters hundreds of thousands of Israelis, closes the Suez Canal and the Straits of Hormuz and holds the world hostage.

Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world, one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world, and is in a very defensible position all while having a close ally that is the strongest military in the world. I think taking your hypothetical seriously is the equivilent of taking the hypothetical of what the ramifications would be if the Park View Patriots of the AA Division for Virginia High School Football blows out the New England Patriots by 40 points while shattering Tom Brady's femur.
 
The representatives selected by the people of Egypt.

Why do you find democracy so threatening?

I have no problem with democracy at all. What are you afraid of, elections are scheduled in Egypt in September so why overthrow the govt. now?
 
Back
Top Bottom