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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #221
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yes, definitely coincidence. There's no way that the United States could ever have a positive effect on anything on the world scene.

    There are those who will look for anything that happens in the world as the fault of the US, although you can't help that, everyone after No 1 and all, but it is disconcerting that some of those are American's. If the US is so damned horrible, then maybe they should go to where their own existence is in a "more just" society.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    There are those who will look for anything that happens in the world as the fault of the US, although you can't help that, everyone after No 1 and all, but it is disconcerting that some of those are American's. If the US is so damned horrible, then maybe they should go to where their own existence is in a "more just" society.
    those anti-american people are surely around, but you cannot use that as an excuse to ignore our actions, and the results thereof. it seems you have a hard time seeing people criticize america in defense of american values. if we see actions america is taking in the world that aren't aiding liberty, but are imposing our will on other sovereign nations, it would be in fact very anti-american to not point it out. to hide your american values for the benefit of cheap resources and labor is the same thing that validated slavery 2 centuries ago. don't think that people are anti-american because they criticize our actions, unless you're willing to go so far as to say all actions by our government are made correctly.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    There are those who will look for anything that happens in the world as the fault of the US, although you can't help that, everyone after No 1 and all, but it is disconcerting that some of those are American's. If the US is so damned horrible, then maybe they should go to where their own existence is in a "more just" society.

    j-mac
    I think all those anti-American bigots should go crying to the Russians, or the Chicoms for help, in the future. See how far that gets them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Streaming al-Jazeera English (AJE) RT-TV.
    - I believe studio HQ is Doha.

    Al Jazeera English: Live Stream - Watch Now - Al Jazeera English

    Good source for this situation or future reference.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Anytime an Islamist party, that supports anti-American terrorism, takes control of a government, the US should be concerned.

    We have Iran, Syria supporting terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are in Gaza and Lebanon. Now, it appears that the Muslim Brotherhood and there's no telling who those clowns are, that are starting trouble in Jordon.

    Yeah, this should be of very high concern.
    America supports pro-American terrorism so thats okay (like the Taliban during the soviet invasion of Afghanistan).

    MY concern of the Islamic brotherhood is ideological and not because they supposedly do what America has been doing for years (yeah thats right, funding terrorism).
    Unless they are moderate and working within a secular democratic and independent constitutional and judiciary framework like in Turkey, they will - without a doubt - just be oppressive liberators of a former oppressor.

    Basically Egypt needs more than just a new head of state. They need the entire state structure re-written from top to bottom. I genuinely believe we will not see much change in Egypt or Tunisia unless this happens.

    And i also believe the Presidential system is very unsuited for Arab countries.

    The panacea for Arab democracies right now is the devolution of powers from one person or institution to numerous persons and institutions, and a Parliamentary system can be of assistance in achieving this "state of democracy".
    Last edited by kaya'08; 01-29-11 at 09:52 AM.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    The Arab world is very poor, and its no wonder that we see so much power hungry fools at the helm of it all.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    America supports pro-American terrorism so thats okay (like the Taliban during the soviet invasion of Afghanistan).

    MY concern of the Islamic brotherhood is ideological and not because they supposedly do what America has been doing for years (yeah thats right, funding terrorism).
    Unless they are moderate and working within a secular democratic and independent constitutional and judiciary framework like in Turkey, they will - without a doubt - just be oppressive liberators of a former oppressor.

    Basically Egypt needs more than just a new head of state. They need the entire state structure re-written from top to bottom. I genuinely believe we will not see much change in Egypt or Tunisia unless this happens.

    And i also believe the Presidential system is very unsuited for Arab countries.

    The panacea for Arab democracies right now is the devolution of powers from one person or institution to numerous persons and institutions, and a Parliamentary system can be of assistance in achieving this "state of democracy".
    So close yet so far away. The Muslim brotherhood is considered a terrorist organization by........Al Qaeda. Why? Because the MB wants modernity and not extremism rule. Basically what you wrote is what the MB believe in.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    America supports pro-American terrorism so thats okay (like the Taliban during the soviet invasion of Afghanistan).

    MY concern of the Islamic brotherhood is ideological and not because they supposedly do what America has been doing for years (yeah thats right, funding terrorism).
    Unless they are moderate and working within a secular democratic and independent constitutional and judiciary framework like in Turkey, they will - without a doubt - just be oppressive liberators of a former oppressor.

    Basically Egypt needs more than just a new head of state. They need the entire state structure re-written from top to bottom. I genuinely believe we will not see much change in Egypt or Tunisia unless this happens.

    And i also believe the Presidential system is very unsuited for Arab countries.

    The panacea for Arab democracies right now is the devolution of powers from one person or institution to numerous persons and institutions, and a Parliamentary system can be of assistance in achieving this "state of democracy".
    This is the biggest problem. People hate America, mostly, because they're uninformed.

    The United States never supported the Taliban during the Afghan-Soviet War. UBL never worked for the CIA.

    If you want to complain about what the United States did wrong in Afghanistan, you would be more accurate to say that we didn't maintain our support for the Northern Alliance. Had we done that, the NA could have wiped out the Taliban.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #229
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post
    You mean there was no revolts before the invasion of Iraq? You sure about that?

    Do you actually have proof that these revolts are inspired by Iraq?
    Well, let's see. You would have the world believe that these "nations" have tunnel vision and have no idea what goes on beyond their borders. That 1400 years of religious unnification amongst the tribes hasn't created a sense of togetherness in their sucesses and failures. That somehow you can allow religious zealots and their extremists their sermons and excuses to murder on behalf of the "Muslim people" everywhere, but deny them their sense of unification when it comes to bettering themselves. That somehow, American protection of the House of Saud angers people throughoiut the region, but America facilitating a blossoming democracy in the heartland cannotpossibly inspire regional cnahge amongst these same people.

    You see, I have common sense. I believe you should know this about me by now. Before the entire region watched Iraqis vote and move beyond their tribal obsessions, there was no wide sweeping revolts throughout the region. No governments making political and social appeasements with their people. The Saudi government never allowed low level elections or a greater degree of female freedom. No sense of unified rage towards their governments other than terrorism. Before, people would simply express some resentment and resort to simply blaming the foriegn devil. Since globalization has allowed these people to watch and observe their neighbors without the absolute travesty og government media control, we have seen Iranians revolt largely on election day, Tunisians largely revolt, and now Egyptians threaten to overthrow their pharaoh. I wonder who's next. Of course, you will still have people believe that it would be yet another isolated incident that has nothing to do with regional change what-so-ever. Without understanding these cultures, you will never see the truth. Aren't you still trying to compare Al-Queda to the IRA?

    Like it or not (which you don't because it smears your protest campaign) none of this would be going on had the most significant change in the region, since Turkey abolished the Sultan (caliphate) and then the "Independence Era," not taken place. Had the entire region not been given the opportunity too observe Iraqis (Baghdad being the heart of Islam for a thousand years at one point) braving the voting booths and working so hard to persevere beyond traditional prescription, this entire region would be business as usual.

    My "proof" is my eyes.


    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post
    Sorry old boy.
    You should be. Your protests have always been shallow and this region will change despite your denials. Perhaps a less dedication towards sensational headlines and more cultural study would help you beyond the sophomorics of this issue. This has always been my edge. There's no secret to this.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-29-11 at 12:33 PM.

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  10. #230
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post
    Except Egypt didn't oppose the war in Iraq.
    No..... Egypt did not support the war in Iraq and absolutely opposed it......

    President Mubarak spoke out against the 2003 war on Iraq, arguing that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict should be resolved first. He also claimed that the war would cause "100 Bin Ladens." President Mubarak does not support an immediate US pull out from Iraq as he believes it will lead to probable chaos. Hosni Mubarak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Like all of the Arab leaders in the region, they were just fine with Iraqi oppression. It maintained "stability" and maintained the status quo in the region. The unspoken truth is that they knew that a free Iraq (full of Sunni, Shia, and Kurds) would be a danger to their own population control eventually. This is why they all refused to aid in Iraq's struggle as America was getting the black eye by people like you. They wanted failure. Since they have not gotten this failure, they have all had to appease their own populations with some social and political change over the years. And as Iraq gains in prosperity and moves forward in success, these crowds around the region will have more and more legitimization in their own protests and disruptions.

    Many cultural experts have been forecasting this even before 2003, which is why even Clinton kept looking for a reason to kick in the door. He didn't have a 9/11 to use. Plenty (like you) will never attribute this massive cultural shift in history to the most significant change in recent history. But this is exactly what has happened.

    Why...even TV is starting to pull Iran's policies into the "de-stabilizing" of the Arab world. This civilization is far more connected than you have ever given them credit for. You have underestimated them at every turn unless you can attribute negativity.


    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post
    Please logic man, it is useful.
    Logic? You can't even get a fact right about Mubarak's non-support of the Iraq War. Get the basics right before you attempt logic. You'll find that your logic gets clearer. My logic is sound. Even when the lot of you clung to sensational headlines and narrow minded pundits, it's my logic that has always relied upon cultural study. You can't face it because you would have to admit what you have been protesting since the beginning.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-29-11 at 12:29 PM.

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