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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #1881
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    What an absolute joke. To cling to your sophomoric protests and utter lack of vision, you prefer to pretend that the greatest disruption in Arab status quo in the heartland of the Sunni tribe had nothing to do with it. Or that long ago revolutions in Turkey have sparked off Tunisia when they have Iraq's recent historical events happening directly within their same region? You actually prefer to use revolutions as far away as possible from this civilization, which shares the very unifying religion of Islam and social oppression, to be what has inspired the greatest regional cry for democracy in history? Why don't we use the American Revolution while we are at this game of Iraq denial.

    Just stop.
    Iraq is the heartland of Sunni Arabs?

    A country of 24 million, 60% of which are Shia Arab, 20% are Kurds (predoiminately sunni) leaving about 20% being sunni arabs.

    This claim has got to be a joke is it not. Egypt has the largest arabic population, with over 80% being Sunni. Saudi Arabia is the homeland of Islam.

    Georgia is geographically closer to Iraq then is Tunisia, and is just a few hundred km further from Iraq then is Egypt.

    You have Turkey being a democracy ( predominately a sunni islam country)
    You have Malaysia being an imperfect democracy with 60% or so being muslim
    You have Indonesia having the largest muslim population and is a democracy

    Egyptians and Tunisians are not morons who can only take inspiration from other Sunni Arabic states. They can read, they can travel they can take inspiration from what occurs in Georgia, the Ukraine, they can see how well Turkey is doing, they can aspire to have what Turkey has, what Georgia has done, or the Ukraine or Kyrgistan for that matter

    After all what occured in Tunisia, and Egypt are far more similar to what occured in Georgia and Ukraine then to what happened in Iraq. Large peacefull protests leading to authoritarian dictatorships being removed from power. Rather different then a foreign military invading, leading to mass chaos, death and displacement


    To add

    The only part Iraq played in the events of Egypt is that for the US to have come out in support of Mubarak, it would have publically shown the US being hypocritical in its "promotion" of democracy
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 02-13-11 at 04:22 PM. Reason: addition
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    ....and? Arabs don't have to occupy. Their status quo is to breed the religious terrorism that encourages other nations to have to protect themselves.

    We kill far more people with far better weapons. I don't get the fear. Sorry.


    Were it not for 9/11 there would be no occupation in Afghanistan and Iraq
    .

    Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, it just a convenient excuse to install a government that would once again let Western oil back in Iraq.

    Were there no Iraqi invasion into Kuwait, there would be no occupation of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. But in the end, all of these governments welcome us to certain extent
    s.

    Of course they threatened oil spigots that we are dependent upon. The Gulf war and ten years of sanctions eliminated that threat. Now what was the recent Iraq war for again?


    We have left Iraq
    We have? That's odd because when my son left there 2 weeks ago, he said there are still 35,000 combat ready troops there.


    We will leave Afghanistan.
    Yeah, well we've saying that for about the last decade now.

    Your refernce inplies that the Gulf War and 9/11 didn't happen
    .

    The Gulf war ended any military threat by Iraq and Iraq didn't have any involvement in 9/11.

    See the Pentagon/CIA reports.

    Your statement implies that the Gulf WaThat America simply decided over night to send its evil military out to slaughter people for the hell of it.
    Not at all, we were protecting one of the sources of our dependency.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Iraq is the heartland of Sunni Arabs?
    Yes...it is. Let's not avoid the mass of the point so that you can preserve a sense of wisdom for yourself. Baghdad was the seat of the Sunni caliphate for centuries after the short stint of Meccan locality. It is a very important city to Islam and this makes Iraq a part of the heartland. Breaking down a percentage of population does nothing to avoid the truth. Anbdthefact that you clued in on such a siumple google check in order to use a number to identify the cultural theme is sophomoric.

    I think I'm finished entertaining you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    This claim has got to be a joke is it not. Egypt has the largest arabic population, with over 80% being Sunni. Saudi Arabia is the homeland of Islam.

    Georgia is geographically closer to Iraq then is Tunisia, and is just a few hundred km further from Iraq then is Egypt.
    Yes...a joke. Can you not see the desparation in your continued stubborness? I'm sure most everyone else can. You are resorting to population percentages and geographical distances in order to avoid culture. You are completely avoiding the culture of the region, which is absolutely everything. It has always been everytihng. To suggest that revolutions in 2003 (Georgia) mattered to Egypt, while the birth of democracy within the region in 2003 (Iraq) did not is criminal. I gave you plenty of evidence out of the mouths of Muslims throughout the region since Iraq. I have shown you historic social changes that occurred only after the heartland of Islam got placed on an alternate path. Still....you seek to deny by producing desparate revolutions far outside the Islamic civilization of the Middle East. First we pretend that Egyptians and Tunisians have no way toview their region. When this fails, we pretend that anything but Iraq served as motivator. This is absolutely pathetic.

    I think I'm finished entertaining you.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Yes...it is. Let's not avoid the mass of the point so that you can preserve a sense of wisdom for yourself. Baghdad was the seat of the Sunni caliphate for centuries after the short stint of Meccan locality. It is a very important city to Islam and this makes Iraq a part of the heartland. Breaking down a percentage of population does nothing to avoid the truth. Anbdthefact that you clued in on such a siumple google check in order to use a number to identify the cultural theme is sophomoric.

    I think I'm finished entertaining you.



    Yes...a joke. Can you not see the desparation in your continued stubborness? I'm sure most everyone else can. You are resorting to population percentages and geographical distances in order to avoid culture. You are completely avoiding the culture of the region, which is absolutely everything. It has always been everytihng. To suggest that revolutions in 2003 (Georgia) mattered to Egypt, while the birth of democracy within the region in 2003 (Iraq) did not is criminal. I gave you plenty of evidence out of the mouths of Muslims throughout the region since Iraq. I have shown you historic social changes that occurred only after the heartland of Islam got placed on an alternate path. Still....you seek to deny by producing desparate revolutions far outside the Islamic civilization of the Middle East. First we pretend that Egyptians and Tunisians have no way toview their region. When this fails, we pretend that anything but Iraq served as motivator. This is absolutely pathetic.

    I think I'm finished entertaining you.
    And I showed that Algeria had an election in the 90s that was open and relatively free yet thrown out by the government leading to a long brutal civil war.

    What I am showing is that claims that Iraq was the motivator, as opposed to all other potential motivators or inspriations is a feel good issue for those that supported the invasion of Iraq. Egyptians took to the streets after they saw what happened in Tunisia. A dictator fled after some rather mild street protests. They did not take to the streets in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. Only after a Tunisian man set himself on fire did Tunisians go to the streets, only after the Tunisians dictator flee, did Egyptians think the same could occur in Egypt. To use Iraq as the insprirations certainly allows the same probability that Georgia. the Ukrain and Kyrgistan were the inspiration for peacefull protests leading to the collapse of dictatorships. Especially among more secular minded Tunisians and Egyptians
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We kill far more people with far better weapons. I don't get the fear. Sorry.
    Well you don't have to get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11,......
    Ha. It's protestor 101 anymore. Apparently, Mr. Osama Bin Laden thought it did which is why he wrote it into his letter of justification for 9/11. Iraq was never aboutonly Iraq. It was aboutthe region. and it is this uneducated region that breeds religious radicalism and extremism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    We have? That's odd because when my son left there 2 weeks ago, he said there are still 35,000 combat ready troops there.
    Oh you mean the barest amount of "soldiers." Not Marines. And without Marines, there is no real combat. What is left is not in combat and most of them aren't even combatants. They are merely insurance until most of them leave too. Unless you are trying to use the sophomoric's attempt to be "right?" Iraq belongs to Iraq. We no longer control it. I believe I told you this before. You may as well whine about our troops in Germany or Okinawa or South Korea or Kuwait. We are finished with Iraq.



    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yeah, well we've saying that for about the last decade now.
    We have not had focus on Afghainstan for 10 years. The Marines have left Iraq and are now focused on Afghanistan. Give it time. In the last year, Afghanistan programs have exponentially improved. Besides, is there something about the American history you don't get? How many stars do we have on our flag? We don't conquer and add stars. We don't consume and assimilate. We have never kept any land abroad after we controlled it. We have always given it back. Any bases are at the bequest of the local government and when the contracts expire we either re-new or leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Gulf war ended any military threat by Iraq and Iraq didn't have any involvement in 9/11.
    Like I stated, Iraq was about the region..not just about Iraq. More sophomoric protestor 101.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    Not at all, we were protecting one of the sources of our dependency.
    More sophomoric protestor 101. Despite your use of oil products throughout your life, there is more to this region besides oil. But of course, if you still need simple answers to a complex issue.....
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-13-11 at 04:55 PM.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    And I showed that Algeria had an election in the 90s that was open and relatively free yet thrown out by the government leading to a long brutal civil war.

    What I am showing is that claims that Iraq was the motivator, as opposed to all other potential motivators or inspriations is a feel good issue for those that supported the invasion of Iraq. Egyptians took to the streets after they saw what happened in Tunisia. A dictator fled after some rather mild street protests. They did not take to the streets in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. Only after a Tunisian man set himself on fire did Tunisians go to the streets, only after the Tunisians dictator flee, did Egyptians think the same could occur in Egypt. To use Iraq as the insprirations certainly allows the same probability that Georgia. the Ukrain and Kyrgistan were the inspiration for peacefull protests leading to the collapse of dictatorships. Especially among more secular minded Tunisians and Egyptians
    You are obvious in your denials. Not only do you deny the truth that you know you see, but you deny the sentiments of regional Arabs I have produced foryou. Focusing soley on Tunisia, with absolute disregard to what had been going on in the region since 2003, is laughable. By all means, let's find an event in East Asia while we are at this game of denial of the biggest social changes within the Islamic heartland since 2003.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-13-11 at 04:58 PM.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Once again, I bring up Jordan. We deliver aid to this country's government as well. King Abdul II has been trying to give more and more power to the people and they have refused. No American aid is preventing anything. The regional habit to blame the West, especially America, 60 years after the "era of independence," is tired and rediculous.
    MSgt, I truly hope that you continue to make the obvious (to some) and compelling case that the Invasion and Liberation of Iraq was always about the region and that it has set the stage for the events unfolding now. I will do the same. Although we are just on a debate board, I still feel it is important to try and reach people on the left. Hopefully some of their minds will be changed and they can object in turn to their friends.

    It is absolutely infuriating to me that the Liberals and Socialists and Democrats and Leftists turned against the war because of no WMDs found and completely discarded the core objective of liberating Iraq and helping them create a Democracy as the THIRD WAY in Middle East politics, to provide an alternative to autocracy and theocracy. These Leftists hoped to score cheap political points against what they considered an "illegitimate" president and thus broke a cardinal rule of American Foreign Policy: "leave your politics at the shoreline". In order to score these cheap political points, they objected to the concept of using force to spread Democracy. The reality and regional history, as you point out, is that 60 years post WW II was not enough time for them to revolt internally. They needed the example of Iraq. Finally, in the end, post 9/11 reality demanded that it was our DUTY as superpower in the world to do so.

    These days, I am also infuriated, although not nearly to the same degree as my infuriation with the Left for their hypocrisy and violation of their own principles of freedom for all, with the Right and the Right's cynicism with events in Egypt. All of this concern about a replication of the Iranian Revolution with the Muslim Brotherhood rising to power, totally misses the mark. A new force has risen in the Middle East, and no one saw it coming? It is taking them by storm. The entire Egyptian Revolution was started by educated youths over the internet and its objective was the acquisition of human rights from an autocratic regime it must overthrow. There is NO WAY the MB will be able to take this from the moderates of Egypt. The Middle East is changed forever because of the invasion of Iraq. A job well done, sir!

    Now, the whole reason I am responding to your post, I did get a little carried away above, is your statement that King Abdul II has been trying to give more and more power to the people and I was peripherally aware of that and his liberal intentions. But you say that the Jordanians have REFUSED? What is that all about?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Ha. It's protestor 101 anymore. Apparently, Mr. Osama Bin Laden thought it did which is why he wrote it into his letter of justification for 9/11. Iraq was never aboutonly Iraq. It was aboutthe region. and it is this uneducated region that breeds religious radicalism and extremism.
    That's some twisted logic right there! BTW, shouldn't we get back to the thread topic?
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's some twisted logic right there! BTW, shouldn't we get back to the thread topic?
    It is on the thread topic. The protests in Egypt is an evolution of the Arab psyche toward democracy and freedom and the acquisition of human rights because of our liberation of Iraq.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It is on the thread topic. The protests in Egypt is an evolution of the Arab psyche toward democracy and freedom and the acquisition of human rights because of our liberation of Iraq.

    Now that made me laugh!!! Thanks, I needed that. Lord Tammerlain and others have pointed out very well how absurd that is.
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-13-11 at 05:47 PM.
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