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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And yet it has been the Christian Armies, not the Muslim Armies that are setting up military occupations in other countries all over the world, and we do it with God on our side I am told.
    Is that what you were told?

    By whom?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I'm gobsmacked. I do not know how anyone could have watched the hours and hours of jubilation, the tears of sheer joy, on the faces of those Egyptians, who for the first time in the living memory of many have the chance for freedom and democracy... and their only thought is, "Crap, the cost of MY gas is going up."

    I mean, really? That's all it meant to you?

    Well, it meant a hell of a lot more to the Egyptians, who have been ruled by Martial Law for 30 years, had friends and loved ones "disappear" at the hands of secret police, never to be seen again, who bear the marks of torture on their own bodies, who were willing to die just for the chance to have the kind of freedoms that most people on this forum were born with, and take completely for granted.

    I cried when I watched the joy in the streets. I'm not stupid, I know that there may be so many pitfalls ahead. This hasn't been done in Egypt before, so there will be baby steps, stumbles and falls. But my god, people. A peaceful protest taking place in every major city in Egypt couldn't be brought down by violence, couldn't be brought down by deaths, couldn't be brought down by threats... and they succeeded. For this glorious moment, they have dignity, they have honor... they have a chance.

    And all some of you can think about is how this might affect you. Aren't we just the compassionate bastion of liberty?

    I need a shower.
    I think your misreading the response, DiAnna, and you shouldn't be put off by a couple of comments. Everyone I've heard speak of this momentous event has been very happy with the results and that it was done relatively peacefully and with a more than a little dignity when considering it was a large protest.

    We all hope the best for the Egyptian people, I'm sure, and that democracy and freedom will spread throughout the Middle East, and indeed the world.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Is that what you were told?

    By whom?
    You name the countries occupied by military forces that go with Allah and I'll name the countries occupied by military forces that go with God.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You name the countries occupied by military forces that go with Allah and I'll name the countries occupied by military forces that go with God.
    Actually that's not the way it works.

    You made a claim and you should support it. If you can't support it you just back off as gracefully as you can, which is clearly what you should do here..

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Actually that's not the way it works.

    You made a claim and you should support it. If you can't support it you just back off as gracefully as you can, which is clearly what you should do here..
    Yes, actually it is the way it works. I originally said, "And yet it has been the Christian Armies, not the Muslim Armies that are setting up military occupations in other countries all over the world, and we do it with God on our side I am told."

    Then you said, "Is that what you were told?

    By whom?"
    Then I said, "You name the countries occupied by military forces that go with Allah and I'll name the countries occupied by military forces that go with God."


    Which brings us back to the point where you have not listed any foreign military occupation by Muslim countries.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You name the countries occupied by military forces that go with Allah and I'll name the countries occupied by military forces that go with God.
    Are you needing history to be recent or all encompassing? You see, it was Islam's Arab armies that exploded out of the peninsula. With the first caliphate, Islam's army found itself at war with the Persian and the Byzantine (Christian) Empires. It was Arabs that first colonized and occupied Christian lands and forced their culture upon others as as far east as Afghanistan, as north as the Balkans, and across northern Africa and into Spain. And the Crusades? Weren't Christian armies merely seeking to regain lost land? And did not Islam's Ottoman army conquer and occupy most of Europe for a thousand years after? And when Europe finally fought back, were they not just recapturing lost land. We tend to label this era "Western Imperialism," but the title is very self flaggelating and pathetic. It's at this point that we like to produce European colonialism as if these local tribes weren't already confused about religion, local identity, and independence.

    The fact is that Allah has caused plenty of damage and his armies have occupied far more vast territory as an empire than any of God's armies. But.......if you need history to start with "Western Imperialism" or even the year 1991 when an occupying Muslim military had to get kicked out of Kuwait by the dastardly Christian Army, then you may go ahead and pretend that the West, especially America, is the scourge of the earth.

    Foolish.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My concern is about what's happening in my lifetime.
    Well, this allows you your shallow outlook and self flaggelation episodes, doesn't it? If you don't concern yourself with the history of these issues, then you will always miss the mark and deny yourself clarity.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    MSgt, what's your take on yesterday's events in Egypt? What does your crystal ball suggest to you as likely?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Then why do all the presidents say, may God go with you, before we send our troops off to kill others?
    Tradition? Besides, "God" is in all religions and such sentiment is mere tradition. You think the Muslim soldier thinks of the Christian God when he hears such a thing? Or does he think of his "God?" Or the Jewish soldier? Or the Athiest?

    "In God We Trust" is on our money too. Is our money Christian money? Is God only in Christianity?

    You see, Islamic warriors or Muslim armies are all absolutely 100 percent Muslim. This is unlike the militaries of the West (which you ignorantly portray as Christian). They are made up of all the religions. Try as you may, the wars between the Crescent and the Cross is entirely in the past. Today we see the wars between the Crescent and the West.

    Why do you insist on stating such ignorant near sighted remarks like this? Does it make the enemy less present to drag your own culture through the gutter? All you do is deny our enemy their culture and identity, while exaggerating the evils of your own.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    MSgt, what's your take on yesterday's events in Egypt? What does your crystal ball suggest to you as likely?



    Post 402 in this thread - January 30 -

    Thanks to the US, the Egyptian military is more proffessional than the rest and they can be a very valuable tool in dealing with Egypt's future. Their refusal to simply turn violent upon their own people should say something.
    I stated this 14 days ago while the commentators (known as "experts") on TV were focusing on whether or not to support the Egyptian people. I also remarked on the true long term security of America being dependent on foriegn democracies while these same "experts" began looking at short term scares like rising oil prices or the Muslim Brotherhood or Iran part II. You would think these "experts" preferred the dictator and his short term guarantee of "stability" (Cold War tactics) over long term security.

    The Egytpian Army was always key, long before these "experts" found it fashionable and safe to say so. Many of their officers have attended War Colleges here in America. They hosted Operation Brightstar every two years, which brought Arab and Western militaries together for exercises (In 2001, the Marines got in trouble for not letting the Egyptians win the scenario). We fund and modernize the Egyptian military. We have shaped their military culture for decades, especially over the last 20 years. Ourmilitary leaders have close relationships with their military leaders. None of this is going to go away so that Egypt can create a religious theocracy.

    If we were to look at Egypt's history, we can see that not only did Egypt have a written history prior to Islam (Turkey and Iran as others), but it also had as loud a voice for democracy at the beginning of European colonialism as it did for Islamic law. Well, Islamic Law (and religious government) has proven to be incompatible to successful unrestrained modernization and the Nasser "monarchy" proved that secular dictatorship is unacceptable. Egyptians have seen what Sharia did for the abused and slaughtered Sudanese. They have seen Iraq vote and vote again as they get stronger and stronger. They have seen Iranian government oppress their people through religion. They have seen the religiously and socially freest Muslims in the region living in Israel.

    Democracy is exactly what Egypt is heading into. This is the natural phase for Egyptians. The Muslim Brotherhood will have seats and influence and the ability to survive, but religious monsters have no power where people have the ability to build modern free society.

    It's all in the books. People are too quick to look for the current event or the reporter to deliver them wisdom. Often enough, it's this short sighted behavior that blinds us to the probabilities as we act like "nobody could have known" after the fact. It's intellectual laziness to predict safe things or to focus on sensational headlines. Washington is full of these types and so is the media.

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