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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Interesting irony in the far-right's panic over the Muslim Brotherhood:

    "After all, in the United States it is axiomatic that Islam is inherently opposed to democracy and that Muslims are incapable of reconciling democratic and Islamic values. Never mind that the same people who scoff at the notion that religion could play no role in the emerging democracies in the Middle East are the same people who demand that religion must play a role in America's democracy. Ironically, one of the most vocal proponent of religious activism in politics is Mike Huckabee himself, who has repeatedly called Americans to "take this nation back for Christ" and who, while running for president, proudly declared that "what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards."
    The Roots of the American Right?s Muslim Brotherhood Panic | Religion Dispatches
    Muslims only need to look back into their history, to the pinnacle of their achievement, the Islamic Golden Age, for resolution of liberalism and Islamic virtues. These days liberalism takes the form of democracy.

    Many medieval Muslim thinkers pursued humanistic, rational and scientific discourses in their search for knowledge, meaning and values. A wide range of Islamic writings on love, poetry, history and philosophical theology show that medieval Islamic thought was open to the humanistic ideas of individualism, occasional secularism, skepticism and liberalism

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Muslims only need to look back into their history, to the pinnacle of their achievement, the Islamic Golden Age, for resolution of liberalism and Islamic virtues. These days liberalism takes the form of democracy.
    Islam Can't Escape Blame - DAILY STAR.leb Forums
    My religion has strayed far since its golden age.
    BY AMIR TAHERI
    October 27, 2001
    Wall Street Journal (originally)

    "This has nothing to do with Islam," British Prime Minister Tony Blair recently told a delegation of Muslims at a meeting at 10 Downing Street, referring to the Sept. 11 attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

    Mr. Blair was echoing a view, popular both in Europe and the U.S., that it is impolite, not to say impolitic, to subject Islam to any criticism. Yet to claim that the attacks had nothing to do with Islam amounts to a whitewash. It is not only disingenuous but also a disservice to Muslims, who need to cast a critical glance at the way their faith is taught, lived and practiced.
    Even worse, the refusal to subject Islam to rational analysis is a recipe for further fanaticism.
    [.....]
    There is more. All but one of the world's remaining military regimes are in Muslim countries. With the exception of Turkey and Bangladesh, there are no real elections in any Muslim country. Of the current 30 active conflicts in the world no fewer than 28 concern Muslim governments and/or communities. Two-thirds of the world's political prisoners are held in Muslim countries, which also carry out 80% of all executions each year.
    [......]
    The Muslim world today is full of bigotry, fanaticism, hypocrisy and plain ignorance--all of which create a breeding ground for criminals like bin Laden. *The principal victims of these criminals are Muslims, who are prevented from developing a modern political culture without which they cannot reform their societies and rebuild their economies.*

    What I am saying is Not meant as critique of Islam as a belief system; that's an issue for theologians, and people should be free to believe whatever they like. What is needed is a critique of Islam as an existential reality. The Sept. 11 tragedies should trigger a rethink of the way Muslims live Islam. We should start with condemning those attacks without "ifs" and "buts." Sadly, the way we Muslims live Islam today is a far cry from the way our ancestors lived it in the golden age when Islam was a builder of civilization, not a force for repression, terror and destruction.
    Mr Taheri has some good points.
    The question is... was there really an 'Islamic Golden Age' for all it's conquered people's.
    Last edited by mbig; 02-11-11 at 09:52 PM.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Islam Can't Escape Blame - DAILY STAR.leb Forums
    My religion has strayed far since its golden age.
    BY AMIR TAHERI
    October 27, 2001
    Wall Street Journal (originally)



    Mr Taheri has some good points.
    The question is... was there really an 'Islamic Golden Age' for all it's conquered people's.
    And yet it has been the Christian Armies, not the Muslim Armies that are setting up military occupations in other countries all over the world, and we do it with God on our side I am told.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Islam Can't Escape Blame - DAILY STAR.leb Forums
    My religion has strayed far since its golden age.
    BY AMIR TAHERI
    October 27, 2001
    Wall Street Journal (originally)



    Mr Taheri has some good points.
    The question is... was there really an 'Islamic Golden Age' for all it's conquered people's.
    Nice article. Totally concur. Been waiting for self-analysis and criticism for years.

    Regarding the incorporation of other religions and freedoms in the Islamic Golden Age:

    Individuals contributing to the Islamic Golden Age were not necessarily Muslim however, considering many parts of the then-tolerant Islamic world were inhabited by other religious groups, such as Christians, Jews and Mandeans.
    Religious freedom, though society was still controlled under Islamic values, helped create cross-cultural networks by attracting Muslim, Christian and Jewish intellectuals and thereby helped spawn the greatest period of philosophical creativity in the Middle Ages from the 8th to 13th centuries.[5] Another reason the Islamic world flourished during this period was an early emphasis on freedom of speech, as summarized by al-Hashimi (a cousin of Caliph al-Ma'mun) in the following letter to one of the religious opponents he was attempting to convert through reason.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And yet it has been the Christian Armies, not the Muslim Armies that are setting up military occupations in other countries all over the world, and we do it with God on our side I am told.
    Hey Cat! Hope you're well.

    Due to the backwardness/stagnation of Muslim cultures over the last 500-1000 years, they're 'armies' really aren't capable of any International deployment!
    Nice try though tho it's somewhat an empty claim for the reason above.

    Not there hasn't been grotesque killing in the name of Islam in places like Sudan (especially Genocide I, pre-Darfur) and places like East Timor.
    And war and repression over virtually the whole 'Islamic Front Line' from Mauritania to Mindinao. (pak/India, Armena/Azerbijan, etc) see my last post.

    And the 'Christian Armies' you speak of are Not acting in the name of Christianity.
    In fact, we saved Muslims in Bosnia by stopping that ethnic cleansing.
    Bravo my country!
    Last edited by mbig; 02-11-11 at 10:46 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Hey Cat! Hope you're well
    .

    I am doing well my friend, hope you are too!

    Due to the backwardness/stagnation of Muslim cultures over the last 500-1000 years, they're 'armies' really aren't capable of any International deployment!
    That is why they are of little threat to us.
    .
    Not there hasn't been grotesque killing in the name of Islam in places like Sudan (especially Genocide I, pre-Darfur) and places like East Timor.
    And war and repression over virtually the whole 'Islamic Front Line' from Mauritania to Mindinao. (pak/India, Armena/Azerbijan, etc) see my last post.
    We've done our share of killing as well through history and we kill more people in other countries than any other I can think of in recent history. Don't forget wee are the only country ever to use nuclear weapons on civilians.

    And the 'Christian Armies' you speak of are Not acting in the name of Christianity.
    Then why do all the presidents say, may God go with you, before we send our troops off to kill others?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And yet it has been the Christian Armies, not the Muslim Armies that are setting up military occupations in other countries all over the world, and we do it with God on our side I am told.
    The Muslims were doing it as much and probably before the Christians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Muslims were doing it as much and probably before the Christians.
    My concern is about what's happening in my lifetime.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    I'm gobsmacked. I do not know how anyone could have watched the hours and hours of jubilation, the tears of sheer joy, on the faces of those Egyptians, who for the first time in the living memory of many have the chance for freedom and democracy... and their only thought is, "Crap, the cost of MY gas is going up."

    I mean, really? That's all it meant to you?

    Well, it meant a hell of a lot more to the Egyptians, who have been ruled by Martial Law for 30 years, had friends and loved ones "disappear" at the hands of secret police, never to be seen again, who bear the marks of torture on their own bodies, who were willing to die just for the chance to have the kind of freedoms that most people on this forum were born with, and take completely for granted.

    I cried when I watched the joy in the streets. I'm not stupid, I know that there may be so many pitfalls ahead. This hasn't been done in Egypt before, so there will be baby steps, stumbles and falls. But my god, people. A peaceful protest taking place in every major city in Egypt couldn't be brought down by violence, couldn't be brought down by deaths, couldn't be brought down by threats... and they succeeded. For this glorious moment, they have dignity, they have honor... they have a chance.

    And all some of you can think about is how this might affect you. Aren't we just the compassionate bastion of liberty?

    I need a shower.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Here's a hopeful op/ed written by an old man I trust:
    Fouad Ajami: Egypt's 'Heroes With No Names' - WSJ.com

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