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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #1711
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I'm not as concerned as some that Egypt will turn into a radical Islamic theocracy. The vast majority of the populace are quite secular, and wouldn't be okay with that. As we've seen, when the vast majority of Egyptians are not okay with something, they have ways of expressing themselves in person.

    I'm am concerned about tomorrow. I want these people to have more freedom and a real democracy. The country has been under Martial Law for 30 years, and they've been absolutely terrorized by the police and the plain-clothed equivalent of our FBI. There's no way I can't hope that they achieve what they've fought so hard for the past 18 days. Over 300 dead. That's a pretty hefty sacrifice. Clearly these people are willing to die for their freedom. Tomorrow I hope it doesn't come to that.
    I think history has clearly shown that when it comes to "revolution" the "vast majority" is irrelevent. It is a hard core minority that drives and wins revolutions. Haven't we always said the same thing about the "vast majority" in these situations? Look at the American Revolution, I have seen estimates that it was won with the support of 1/3 or less of the populace. No it is not the majority that runs or wins revolutions, it is a dedicated minority in most cases that is victorius in the end

  2. #1712
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I'm not as concerned as some that Egypt will turn into a radical Islamic theocracy. The vast majority of the populace are quite secular, and wouldn't be okay with that. As we've seen, when the vast majority of Egyptians are not okay with something, they have ways of expressing themselves in person.

    I'm am concerned about tomorrow. I want these people to have more freedom and a real democracy. The country has been under Martial Law for 30 years, and they've been absolutely terrorized by the police and the plain-clothed equivalent of our FBI. There's no way I can't hope that they achieve what they've fought so hard for the past 18 days. Over 300 dead. That's a pretty hefty sacrifice. Clearly these people are willing to die for their freedom. Tomorrow I hope it doesn't come to that.
    There has yet been a, "vast majority", of Egyptians express anything. We've only seen about 1% show up to any given protest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #1713
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There has yet been a, "vast majority", of Egyptians express anything. We've only seen about 1% show up to any given protest.
    Poll: No constituency for Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt

    "This 
is
 not 
an 
Islamic 
uprising. 
The 
Muslim 
Brotherhood 
is 
"approved"
by
 just 
15%, 
and 
its 
leaders 
get
 barely 1%
 in
 a 
presidential 
straw
 vote.

    
Asked 
to
 pick
 national
 priorities, 
just
 12% 
choose 
shariah 
over
 national 
power, democracy,
or
 economic 
development. 
Asked
 to 
explain
 the 
uprising, 
economic
 conditions,
corruption,
and unemployment 
(30‐40% 
each) 
far
 outpace 
"regime
 not 
Islamic 
enough" 
(7%).

    Surprisingly, 
asked 
two
 different 
ways
 about 
the
 peace 
treaty 
with 
Israel,
 more
 support
 it 
(37%)
 than
 oppose it 
(22%). 
Only 
18% 
approve
 of
 either 
Hamas 
or 
Iran. 
And 
a
 mere 
5% 
say 
the 
uprising
 occurred 
because
 the regime 
is 
"too
 pro-Israel."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #1714
    Sage
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Poll: No constituency for Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt

    "This 
is
 not 
an 
Islamic 
uprising. 
The 
Muslim 
Brotherhood 
is 
"approved"
by
 just 
15%, 
and 
its 
leaders 
get
 barely 1%
 in
 a 
presidential 
straw
 vote.

    
Asked 
to
 pick
 national
 priorities, 
just
 12% 
choose 
shariah 
over
 national 
power, democracy,
or
 economic 
development. 
Asked
 to 
explain
 the 
uprising, 
economic
 conditions,
corruption,
and unemployment 
(30‐40% 
each) 
far
 outpace 
"regime
 not 
Islamic 
enough" 
(7%).

    Surprisingly, 
asked 
two
 different 
ways
 about 
the
 peace 
treaty 
with 
Israel,
 more
 support
 it 
(37%)
 than
 oppose it 
(22%). 
Only 
18% 
approve
 of
 either 
Hamas 
or 
Iran. 
And 
a
 mere 
5% 
say 
the 
uprising
 occurred 
because
 the regime 
is 
"too
 pro-Israel."
    That's all fine and good, providing that we're going to see an actual democracy in Egypt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #1715
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's all fine and good, providing that we're going to see an actual democracy in Egypt.
    What Actual Democracy is to you, may not be an Actual Democracy to someone else...

    There's more kinds of democracy then the "American, Freedom and Liberties, Jesus USA #1" kind of democracy you subscribe to.

  6. #1716
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    What Actual Democracy is to you, may not be an Actual Democracy to someone else...

    There's more kinds of democracy then the "American, Freedom and Liberties, Jesus USA #1" kind of democracy you subscribe to.
    If there aren't free, fair and non-rigged elections, then there is no democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #1717
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If there aren't free, fair and non-rigged elections, then there is no democracy.
    **** dude, it takes a hell of a lot more than free and fair elections to form a functioning democracy. But it would be a good start if no political parties are excluded from running for office, and that includes the Muslim Brotherhood.

  8. #1718
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's all fine and good, providing that we're going to see an actual democracy in Egypt.
    Here's the Neocon perspective on this. Read carefully William Kristal's words and consider, apdst.

  9. #1719
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If there aren't free, fair and non-rigged elections, then there is no democracy.
    That is why there is a revolution now, because they don't have free, non-rigged elections.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #1720
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    **** dude, it takes a hell of a lot more than free and fair elections to form a functioning democracy.
    You're preaching to the choir.



    But it would be a good start if no political parties are excluded from running for office, and that includes the Muslim Brotherhood.
    If the only thing the MB does is run for office, you're right. If the MB ends up running the whole show, then there won't be democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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