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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Feeling he can give Hosni instructions, for one. Now it seems.
    What, you think he should have kissed Mubarak's butt instead. I am very proud that we now have a president that is finally standing up to Mubarak.
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-09-11 at 08:13 PM.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    There seems to be a long running discussion-in-discussion about the reasons for the Iraq War.
    It's main and only justification Congress and the UN approved was finding WMDs.

    Nation rebuilding, getting Saddam, looking for al qaeda, and the popular surge were just feeble attempts to justify keeping our army there. Leaving (cutting and running) without a victory of some kind was political suicide, remember!!

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    There seems to be a long running discussion-in-discussion about the reasons for the Iraq War.
    It's main justification, and Casus belli was Saddam having WMD.
    A credible but, as it turned out, wrong one.

    But probably the main accusation against Bush (and the neocons) was that they were trying to export/"impose democracy".
    And that WAS one of the objectives.
    The main public justification was WMD. Humanitarian intervention was also a justification, one that passes Just War Theory. Bush's speech to the UN on Sept 12, 2002 lays it all out.

    The PRIMARY objective was to spread Democracy, first in Iraq and then let that example spread through the Middle East. If that were not the PRIMARY objective, we would never have invaded.

    The point I originally made in this thread is that the Iraqi model of Democracy, with all of its faults and fragility, is serving as an example in the Middle East today.

    So Credit as well as blame must be given by war opponents for any success in Iraq and at least to some degree, the further spread of democracy, however clumsily.
    Perhaps this is what is so irritating about Catawba, aside from his incorrectly assigning blame. He is 100% negative about it and doesn't budge. He is just anti-Iraq war at any cost and doesn't see anything positive. All events in human history have both good and bad consequences to them. This underlies the concept of creative destruction. He will have none of that.

    Yes, it was at horrendous cost to us in Lives and Treasure.
    Yes, it was steep, mainly because it lasted so long.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    It's main and only justification Congress and the UN approved was finding WMDs.

    Nation rebuilding, getting Saddam, looking for al qaeda, and the popular surge were just feeble attempts to justify keeping our army there. Leaving (cutting and running) without a victory of some kind was political suicide, remember!!

    ricksfolly
    It's immediate justification (UN, etc) was WMD. Without which war was less a pressing issue.

    BUT, it's Objectives and motives were clearly beyond WMD.

    Accusations against Cons/Neocons/Bush were many. (Grudge, Oil, Crusade, etc)
    Spreading/"imposing democracy" is indeed the Main credo of neocons who were widely blamed for the War and influencing Bush.
    So people who used that line of attack should acknowledge That was an objective.. now too.
    Last edited by mbig; 02-09-11 at 08:26 PM.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The main public justification was WMD. Humanitarian intervention was also a justification, one that passes Just War Theory. Bush's speech to the UN on Sept 12, 2002 lays it all out. The PRIMARY objective was to spread Democracy, first in Iraq and then let that example spread through the Middle East. If that were not the PRIMARY objective, we would never have invaded. The point I originally made in this thread is that the Iraqi model of Democracy, with all of its faults and fragility, is serving as an example in the Middle East today.

    Perhaps this is what is so irritating about Catawba, aside from his incorrectly assigning blame. He is 100% negative about it and doesn't budge. He is just anti-Iraq war at any cost and doesn't see anything positive. All events in human history have both good and bad consequences to them. This underlies the concept of creative destruction. He will have none of that.

    You can try to spin the war however you like but the fact is the American people were misled about our reasons for invading Iraq. Without the fear mongering, the American public would have never agreed to an invasion and indefinite occupation of Iraq. And despite your pretend visions of Iraq being a beacon of Democracy in the Middle East, our invasion and occupation of Iraq was the biggest recruiting tool that al Qaeda had in its arsenal.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What, you think he should have kissed Mubarak's butt instead. I am very proud that we now have a president that is finally standing up to Mubarak.
    Yeah, now we have a prez that is openly supporting the terrorists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah, now we have a prez that is openly supporting the terrorists.
    What terrorists?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What, you think he should have kissed Mubarak's butt instead. I am very proud that we now have a president that is finally standing up to Mubarak.

    Stand up to him?

    Mubarak is ignoring poor Obama!

    Does anyone really care what BHO says anymore? Do you still believe him?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What terrorists?
    The Muslim Brotherhood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Muslim Brotherhood.
    How did you get 1+1= 4?

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