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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Getting pretty quiet in Egypt. Has the "revolution" already lost its steam? Will Mubarak remain?

    Perhaps we should have kept our mouths shut and let this play out first.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The United States played the major role in removing the worst dictator in the Middle East and received nothing more than public criticism from both their former Allies as well as other Middle East countries. Let them work it out themselves and then, if they cause any problem to the American people, hit them very bloody hard.
    We can take the criticism; our skin is thick. The primary criticism was the act of invading a Middle Eastern country to spread democracy. Arabs were pissed because they thought they should be able to do it themselves. Europeans were pissed because we hurt their business interests.

    In the case of Egypt, no recommendation for invasion has been made. The Egyptians are protesting of their own accord. What we can do is more firmly and unequivocally support the goals of the protesters.

    We need to make it crystal clear to the ME that we promote democratization.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Nonsense. You are wrong as usual. As has been pointed out, we still have troops in Germany 65 years after the end of World War II. Just like in Iraq, these troops stick to their bases and assigned exercise areas and are not involved at all in in local security of the population or enabling the authority of the German government. The presence of foreign troops does not in any way limit the sovereignty of the Iraqi government.
    You are ignoring that Germany was an actual threat to its neighbors. The Pentagon/CIA determined that Iraq was not a threat to its neighbors since 1992.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ordinary Iraqi people don't go around setting off car bombs in market squares.
    Civil wars are not usually bloodless. Look at our own civil war.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't believe this is a fair characterization. Over time, the U.S. presence in Western Europe became strictly about assisting with national security (against the U.S.S.R. and its allies)/the global balance of power, not about helping maintain law/order/internal stability. In Iraq, the diminishing U.S. presence is still largely focused on the latter.
    In Iraq, we are not focussed on maintaining law/order/internal security, at all. We have 2 missions:

    1) train and advise the Army
    2) Counterterrorism in partnership with the Iraqi Commandos.

    Neither of these relates to general security of the population or interference in the political machine.

    Therefore, the analogy to Germany is apt.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are ignoring that Germany was an actual threat to its neighbors. The Pentagon/CIA determined that Iraq was not a threat to its neighbors since 1992.
    In the case of both Germany and Iraqi, the issue of maintaining troops is more an issue of preventing neighboring countries from invading, not controlling the politics of said countries.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    I have to disagree. You are citing what is described as the missions, in theory. However, in practice, U.S. troops continue to actively assist with security operations. For example, today's edition of The Washington Post reported:

    In a protective inner ring, soldiers representing both those forces as well as local Turkmen police have paired with U.S. platoons for roaming patrols.

    American and Iraqi soldiers also staff joint checkpoints on all roads leading into town. Within the city limits, only Kirkuk police - a sometimes-volatile mix of Kurds, Arabs and Turkmen - are allowed to operate.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    In the case of both Germany and Iraqi, the issue of maintaining troops is more an issue of preventing neighboring countries from invading, not controlling the politics of said countries.
    I would also have to disagree. My son just returned from a 4 month tour in Iraq and the base he was on received 35 mortar rounds that made it inside the base. These attacks were by Iraqis, not neighboring countries, and they were dealt with not by Iraqi forces but by American forces.

    The Iraqis have said they do not want us there, so apparently they are not worried about invasion from neighboring countries. So, why is it again that we remain there?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I would also have to disagree. My son just returned from a 4 month tour in Iraq and the base he was on received 35 mortar rounds that made it inside the base. These attacks were by Iraqis, not neighboring countries, and they were dealt with not by Iraqi forces but by American forces.

    The Iraqis have said they do not want us there, so apparently they are not worried about invasion from neighboring countries. So, why is it again that we remain there?
    If we left right now, they would freak out. The vast majority of Iraqis want us there, I'm sure. They're not ready yet by a long shot.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    If we left right now, they would freak out. The vast majority of Iraqis want us there, I'm sure. They're not ready yet by a long shot.
    This is the most recent poll I could find: New Poll: 70% of Iraqis want the US military out of Iraq.

    Do you have a more recent poll that backs up your claim?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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