I suppose most want a faster transition but Obama is not alone, nor first.
Probably arriving at that position reluctantly to avoid chaos.
"..The Obama administration joined other Western nations Saturday in endorsing embattled Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's gradual exit from power and, in a shift, urged Egyptians to back the power transition Mubarak and his closest advisers have set in motion..."
Last edited by mbig; 02-05-11 at 10:53 PM.
I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
There have been no declarations, constitutions, nor referendums; which means that so far, these are just a buncha clowns raising hell in the street.
I don't think invading Egypt is a smart idea. From what I am reading in the news and what my co-worker told me who is from Egypt, there is a lot of anti-American feeling behind the protests and they feel their government has represented foreign interests ahead of their own. If America were to invade the people would be more likely to support a new radical government just for the sake of keeping the U.S. out, even though it would be bad for them.
Mubarak tossed out his cabinet within the past couple of days so there are signs that the government as it is will not survive. The Egyptians seem to have a big understanding of what is needed next and based on the peaceful protests that include songs and dances, it seems like they are aiming for a democratic government that will put them first.
normally, the opinion of a talking head is not of much note
but this is cfr's gelb, here
in other words, obama cares
Egypt Protests: ObamaThe Obama White House hasn't helped matters by shifting policy ground almost daily, causing confusion, and thereby squandering America's credibility and limited but precious influence. President Obama has got to learn the fundamental rule of dealing with careening crises: State your basic principles and then shut up publicly! (Meaning, just boringly repeat your mantra daily.)
The United States has no power to shape events in Egypt, but it does have real influence. Using that influence effectively absolutely requires consistency out of the White House. That has not been forthcoming
Here's the gist of the administration's rhetorical roller coaster since the crisis began: They started out saying that Mubarak's regime was "stable," they proclaimed Egypt a "close and important ally," suggesting the need to support Mubarak, and added that he was not a "dictator." Then they threatened to review the billion-dollar U.S. aid package to Egypt, a real body blow to Mubarak and the military. After Mubarak said he would not run for reelection in September, they called for an "orderly transition." As protests continued, they called for Mubarak to begin the transition "now." In sum, they danced to and fro during the first several days and then increasingly hardened their position against Mubarak even as they were privately trying to get him to participate in his own political demise.
The only statement that made complete sense throughout this roller-coaster process was Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's on Sunday: "It needs to be an orderly, peaceful transition to real democracy, not faux democracy." That's the heart of the matter, and that's all the administration should have been saying publicly along with a line like, "And, of course, we stand ready to help Egyptians as and when they call upon us to do so."
...and it's not exactly the West that fancies itself as superior. Isn't God supposed to be on their righteous side? Isn't it the Sunni Arab that looks down on all other Muslim tribes? Isn't it the Sunni tribe that levied taxes upon non-Muslims throughout history? Did you know that it was the Arab slave trade, in accordance to Muhammad prescription, that identified non-Christian/non-Jews/non-Muslims as ther only acceptable source for slavery, which meant the unaffiliated black? And that Europeans identified blacks south of the northern regions in Africa as the Atlantic Slave Trade source to stay clear of black Muslim Arabs as a result? Let's not pretend that these people are hapless victims of the outside world and that they haven't lifted "racism" and superiority to a superhuman level. And before you dismiss these type things as insignificant in the year 2011, let's also remember that these people largely live within their history.
It is an absolute fact that the further people and nations get from Mecca, the healthier they appear. Look at the globe. This is a general rule. It is true for individuals, governments, and religions. I believe this has absolutely everything to do with the concentrated Sunni tribe. There is no coincidence that, when the Sunni tribe lost stewardship of Islam to the Ottoman's, the Sunni Arabs locked down all scientific and philosophical study in the region for all Muslims. There is no coincidence that even as the Ottoman Turks tried to move Islam into the modern future, it was the Sunni elders in the heartland that continually managed to prevent all reformation. There is no coincidence that in Sudan and Iraq it was the Sunni tribe that orchestrated mass slaughter of their fellow non-Arab Muslims. and there is no coincidence that Iraq's progressing democracy is absolutely due to its government not being of largely Sunni membership, but largely Shia. Is it a coincidence that the freest Muslims in the regions live under a Jewsih government and not a Sunni Arab one? And with all the money the U.S. has given to almost every single nation in this region over the last 65-ish years, only Israel maintains a sense of great prosperity and social justice for all its religious people?
Therefore, I submit that for politicial fear of actually looking into the Islamic culture, people miss the mark by pretending that any of these Middle Eastern Arab cultures, which have no recorded history prior to Islam, can look like Indonesia, a country as far removed from the source of the problem as possible. Sunni Arabs can thrive in democracy when they do not have a Sunni Arab government above them. The tendency to voice their superiority above all others has been historically traditional and has facilitated oppression and the fact that Muhammad was a Sunni doesn't help. Aside from their economic problems in the Middle East, all Muslims and non-Muslims have to contend with the entirely religious Sunni tribe who have no history prior to Muhammad. Pray in Arabic? Face Mecca? So God can't speak other languages or can't be everywhere as the Qu'ran states? I subscribe to the prospect that down through the centuries, people have unwittingly been offering their allegiances to the Sunni tribe rather than true faith in God. After all, is God in Rome and speaking Latin in the West still?
Look at another point. How much more healthier does Egypt, Turkey, and Iran look as compared to all the other Arab governments? While you may seek to show where they are imperfect, you must also admit that they have had a certain potential to experiment (and more nationalistic) that the others seem to not have. The big difference between them and the rest is that they have a recorded history prior to Islam. For the rest, Islam is the beginning.
2) Jesus was an activist and died a "failure." Muhammad was an activist, judge, politician, general, and soveriegn. He died "successful."
These two very bold truths have facilitated the paths of both religions. The separation between church and state was always going to be easier in Christianity - "Render unto Caeser that which is Caeser and render unto God that which is God." Clear separation. No such scriptures exist in the Qu'ran because Islam was never not government and was alwasy supposed to be. Who was the orginial Caeser of Islam? It wasn't the first caliphate. There is also the manner in which Islam thrived when it was in its purity under the Prophet. It's Muhammad's life example that lends legitimacy towards Islamic warriors. The worse Islam's scene has become down through history is supposed to be evidence of how "Westernized" they were leaning.
Last edited by MSgt; 02-06-11 at 01:59 PM.
Why is democracy in the Middle East a "disaster"? While it might make the dictatorships, theocrats and other special interest groups nervous it might be welcomed by the people, once they get used to the idea.
It was often said that Blacks couldn't handle democracy, nor the Japanese, Chinese and so on. I see immigrants from many countries living quite happily in democracies and it seems to suit them fine.
It's still anybody's ball game.
The Egyptian military has rounded up scores of human rights activists, protest organizers and journalists in recent days without formal charges, according to watchdog groups and accounts by the detainees.
Read more: Despite talk of concessions, Egyptian military cracking down | McClatchy