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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

  1. #1441
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I think the West (Britain, at least) can see who has been trading who to whom.
    Maybe to the more simple of the West. To the more educated, I believe we can see the real world and have come to the conclusion that governments are like people. We all have secrets about each other. Just because someone might be a friend doesn't mean you don't hold private criticisms about him. In order to maintain your friendship, you keep those criticisms to yourself. Of course, if some jack ass comes along and decides that telling everyone about your criticisms in the name of "transparency" or "press freedom" you now have a damaged relationship. You now have to spend time hopefully reparing what should never have been a problem or public knowledge.

    You don't think governments are the same? I would state that America has kept far more secrets about its allies than any other because we are the most loyal. It's the reason European governments are so quick to publicly criticize America for its every step while America mostly minds its own business. But sometimes, some piece of **** may release some information that should be simply kept private. And along comes a secret hunter called Wikileaks to ensure that the whole world gets to hear all about it. Notice how it's the English speaking nations that seem to be such a focus? Could it be because it's in the English speaking nations where you will find greater transparency and truer press freedom? He's a trader and uses the to the very ideals that the English speaking world holds dear against it. Or doesn't non-English speaking nations have secrets to expose in the name of his self-righteous irresponsible crusade?

    Or you can be simple and excuse the general theme that has been going on for the last couple years with Wikileaks and simply accuse "America" of being a trader. I believe after the last two years of Carter-esque anti-Americanism and international groveling towards our obvious enemies, which has come out of the White House, most of America would call him a trader at this point. Bush wouldn't have done this to an ally like Britain. Neither would Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Johnson, Kennedy, Roosevelt, etc. Europeans and dimitted fools in America got the man they wanted in the White House didn't they? Americans want to hold out their criticisms about this Health Care agenda because of the humanitarian spirit of it and dismiss the fact that bankrupting the nation is its path. But now he has released weapon system secrets of a European ally (who happened to have stuck with us in Iraq, which was against Obama's ability to think beyond the shallow) to enemies? And this fence playing on whether or not to support the dictator in Egypt with meek microphone blurbs occassionally? I'm quickly starting to see what others have been stating all along.

    Or he's just another fool member of the Global Left that is willing to destroy anything and everything to achieve the utopian impractical dream of one world unity by exposing weaknesses and trusting that evil and antagonizers will behave on their own accord.
    Last edited by MSgt; 02-05-11 at 11:44 AM.

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  2. #1442
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Or maybe the British government knew about this all along and agreed to certain revelations in light of Russia's and America's nuclear transparency inspections with each other? It's easy to assume that you know everything because of released documents. It takes a bit of thinking to appreciate what unreleased documents may reveal in regards to further explanation.

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  3. #1443
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I think the West (Britain, at least) can see who has been trading who to whom.
    Haha....drop your drawers and grab your socks.

  4. #1444
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    They are, for Christ's sake. They have a ratified constitution.
    And thats your argument?
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Bush wouldn't have done this [given the uk's nuclear secrets to putin] to an ally like Britain. Neither would Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Johnson, Kennedy, Roosevelt, etc.
    undeniably correct

    our current president is something entirely else

    keep up the good work

  6. #1446
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    ideologically conservative: so what? We've got kooks in America too, on both sides of the aisle.
    Only these kooks are in power and they abuse it to get votes from the uneducated Iraqi majority.

    We have all seen the effects and policies put in place by leaders of the Shiite conservative movement. Can you see Maliki and his ilk standing up for modernism and progressivism? These people do not believe in the values of secularism. They WILL impose a religious approach to the Iraqi democracy.

    If its democracy is not formed from a secular and moderate viewpoint, how can you possibly say it is a model democracy? Without these basic principles, how can the Iraqi Democracy ever mature to a level that is acceptable and that respects the rights of all man?

    [their] fundamental beliefs are against the ones America attempted to establish in Iraq: not at all. We established legal human rights in Iraq. Bill of Rights kinds of stuff. Are there violations? Sure. Just like here in the US.
    Nothing to the extent of the US. Incomparable even.

    Iraq's Democracy is not going to be like America's Democracy, but that does not mean it is not a successful Democracy.
    Your judging a successful Democracy on the amount of newspapers there are in Iraq and the amount of political parties, which according to you, is evidence of free speech - a poor argument indeed. Media is censored just like it is in Jordan or Egypt and political dissent is handled just like it is in any other part of the Arab world. So how does it stand out? It doesnt.

    Where is this evidence?
    Please feel free to view our previous discussions.

    Are you pulling this out of your unwashed ass, too? Evidence?
    You may feel cornered or intimidated by me or whatever it is going through your mind right now, but there really is no need.
    Already provided. I gave you a link to the necessary think-tank regarding growth in Iraq.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 02-05-11 at 12:28 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Breaking on Al Jazeera: Hosni Mubarak, Gamal Mubarak and Safwat El Sharif have all resigned from the Ruling leadership of the National Democratic Party as a gesture to the protesters.


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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Breaking on Al Jazeera: Hosni Mubarak, Gamal Mubarak and Safwat El Sharif have all resigned from the Ruling leadership of the National Democratic Party as a gesture to the protesters.
    That doesn't mean they step down though, does it? Its meaningless BS.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  9. #1449
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    You have a good point, but you have to consider something with this. The "intellectual" of Islam is the string puller who insists that Allah is the only way and they are the ones who continue to ratchet up the rhetoric. They were the original members of the Brotherhood in Egypt that leaned on Sayyid Qutb's wisdom and facilitated the assassination of Sadat. They were the mistaken supporters of Khomeini in Iran. They are the ones that developed the Mujahideen in Sunni schools so that they could combat Khomeini's Shia radicalism and later fight the Soviets in Afghanistan and then eventually call themselves "students" (Tali-ban).

    But none of the intellectuals use their wealth or religious education to strap bombs to their chests. They seek the poor to become the Mujahideen. They seek the poor in Palestine to commit murder/suicide. They seek the ignorant masses to gather moral support for his rhetoric. They seek the poor and convince them that salvation and glorified escape is just a violent act away.

    Think about it in our local terms. The economic and educational situation in the South of our country is generally less than the North. It's in the South where you will find most of your religious nuts, hillbillies, and radical churches. The good 'ole country boy is generally from a southern state.

    The poor in the Middle East are the ones who have no education, no opportunities, and no future. Give them a sermon and a bomb and they, all of a sudden, have a purpose. Of course, if the poor are ever given an opportunity to educate and prosper then the intellectual begins to lose his flock. No one, who has a life, is so willing to dispose of it so quickly.
    You raise several good points but we can see that the 9/11 bombers were middle class and well educted, as were those on 7/7 in the UK. I've no doubt that those recruited are as you describe but their commonality is still Islam, rich or poor.

    As well, there appears to be a lack of intellectual leadership in the Muslim world, and I suspect fatwas might have something to do with that. There is little curiosity in a world where all human behaviour and thought is limited to the teachings of a single book and that book overwhelms their daily lives.

    The Closing of the Muslim Mind – How Intellectual Suicide Created the Modern Islamist | God Discussion

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    And thats your argument?
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1059266354

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