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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    I am familiar with the flowering of Arab civilization. The flower was cut off by the Seljuk Turks, Mongols and Mamelukes. That garden has been dead for almost a thousand years.
    But it can't stay dead. In the nuclear Cold War future that is the Middle East, it simply can not stay dead.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    But it can't stay dead. In the nuclear Cold War future that is the Middle East, it simply can not stay dead.
    My friend, you remind me of the hero Horatius at the Bridge. But it is difficult to rise above the sentiments and morality of a decadent era.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    I once thought it was America's role in history to spread the ideal of individual liberty and democracy throughout the world by the power of its ideas. Then 9/11 happened. I agreed with Bush's Democracy Agenda as a response to 9/11.
    ALRIGHT, DUDE, now we are getting somewhere. I have enjoyed many of you other posts, re immigration effects in CA and so on (you are perhaps a bit too fatalistic and pessimistic about it for me. I believe strongly in the power of the ideals of America to change people and assimilation will occur to a degree, especially if we can get them out of the projects. The only hiccup is that we have a Borderland problem with Mexicans versus all the other immigrants - all other immigrants had to leave their culture to come here and so are more susceptible to getting reculturated within a generation or two).

    Then I discovered that the American left was prepared to sandbag the country and use the stuggle in Iraq for domestic political purposes.
    I am not even sure what to say about this. It saddens and infuriates me. They are covered in ****. Pricks all of them.

    This has changed my entire view of what America's role in the world is.
    This is what puzzles me. If you started off with conviction for the Democracy Agenda, how did the left's despicable reaction to it and attempts to discredit it and Bush, for politic points, cause you to change your entire view of America's role in the world? Did you somehow buy into what the left said about it? They certainly offered no explicit alternative.

    The left sought power by discrediting the Democracy Agenda and cannot now claim to be the advocate of the spread of individual liberty.
    Indeed. I think many conservatives, while concerned about the power fundamentalists may attain, and also concerned about damage to our economic interests (we only import 10% of all ME oil), fully support the ideal of democratizing the ME. Even the Realists.

    I wish the people of the Arab world well. May they find freedom in whatever form they come upon it. But America no longer has a role in spreading democracy in the world. Many conservatives believe that individual liberty is in fact endangered in America itself. We have business at home.
    We disagree. We do have serious business at home but we have never had to focus on only one issue at one time. We can do both. We aren't going to be invading another country...Iraq was a one time deal and invasion is no longer necessary as the wave of democratization is sweeping the region on its own merits. But we do have a significant diplomatic and economic role to play in these developments.

    Obama is doing exactly the right thing and I applaud him for it!

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I have shifted my personal/professional study and focus on Arab culture (generally Middle Eastern) to Afghani (south Asia) since the beginning of December.

    Afghanistan is determined to be Afghanistan. Its history is its future. Because the exhausting cultural classes they have placed us in for the last 2 months, I believe that Marine and Army command (Mattis/Patreaus) have come to this conclusion. This entire country is made up of tribes that straddle every single border. They are far worse than Iraqis in terms of unity and far more capable of celebrating their frictions. But they are also, however, far more loyal to base tribal ideologies and traditions that appear to agree with each other (honor, duty, family, etc.). We have to acknowledge that "victory" in Afghanistan means a strong central Pashtun government that respects the "soveriegnty" of its ancient tribes within the territory (all of which are made up of people who do not consider themselves "Afghani.")

    This future very much relies upon current on going missions. General Patreaus asked General Mattis to produce Marine teams faster to replace Army and NATO teams since our role in Iraq finished. The Afghani military (ANA) and Afghani security forces (AFSN) are in the process of not only addressing the corruption they have within, but where there lines are drawn. We are up against a culture that has not traditionally had a military/police force working together and respecting their roles. They are responding very well to the Marine advisor teams and are exponentially requesting Marine teams. The British and other Nato Generals have come to Camp Lejeune to discover our training methods and how we are getting such positive responses.

    The biggest problem is corruption on the civilian side. Many of the Afghani forces are having to struggle to get their politicians and bureaucrats to pay them their salaries and to provide them their proper support (pay, feul, ammo, etc.) By the time it reaches them, much of their "support" has been stolen by individual butt holes who seek a more immediate personal gain. In the mean time, our ongoing efforts (military and NGO) to provide villages with technical support and educational opportunities (over 80 percent can't read and many of them have never even heard of 9/11) are having positive affect.

    Pakistan is just a big mess.
    Semper Fi, MSgt. I so wish I had waited a bit longer and joined the Marines instead of the Army. I had a blast in the Army and over 8 years I was a Track Mechanic, Supply Clerk, RATT rig operator and, my favorite, an Intelligence Analyst for a Fld Arty Bde HQ, working in the Op Center. I tried rejoining as a MOS 35F, Intelligence Analyst, but I can't do the PT test any longer. I think Intelligence is one of the best MOSs for our efforts, since Counterinsurgency is won by having the best intelligence: on the enemy, civilians, social networks, corruption, etc, at least according to FM 3-24. The Marine Corps is known for the 3 block war, although now I hear it is the 4 block war: Clear-Hold-Build-Transition. I am very, very glad to hear from you that the Marines are having such a great impact to our ops.

    Thanks for the overview of AFG and all the best in your deployment!

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    I once thought it was America's role in history to spread the ideal of individual liberty and democracy throughout the world by the power of its ideas. Then 9/11 happened. I agreed with Bush's Democracy Agenda as a response to 9/11.

    Then I discovered that the American left was prepared to sandbag the country and use the stuggle in Iraq for domestic political purposes. This has changed my entire view of what America's role in the world is. The left sought power by discrediting the Democracy Agenda and cannot now claim to be the advocate of the spread of individual liberty.

    I wish the people of the Arab world well. May they find freedom in whatever form they come upon it. But America no longer has a role in spreading democracy in the world. Many conservatives believe that individual liberty is in fact endangered in America itself. We have business at home.
    It's the Left everywhere though, Albert, and their lengthy camppaign of anti Americanism.

    Were the democracies to have been united with each other freedom and democracy would have spread more swiftly. But when the left aligned themselves with Communist dictatorships and attacked Ronald Reagan moreso than Communist leaders it was a clear sign of just how fragile democracy is and how easy it is for the Left to condemn others to live under totalitarianism. And of course they will attack George Bush and Tony Blair much more than they will be critical of any ME leader, past or present.

    Anti Americanism in Europe has allowed a vacuum to be created and this is being filled by Islamic extremists. The left, for the most part, are dangerous fools.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    ALRIGHT, DUDE, now we are getting somewhere. I have enjoyed many of you other posts, re immigration effects in CA and so on (you are perhaps a bit too fatalistic and pessimistic about it for me. I believe strongly in the power of the ideals of America to change people and assimilation will occur to a degree, especially if we can get them out of the projects. The only hiccup is that we have a Borderland problem with Mexicans versus all the other immigrants - all other immigrants had to leave their culture to come here and so are more susceptible to getting reculturated within a generation or two).



    I am not even sure what to say about this. It saddens and infuriates me. They are covered in ****. Pricks all of them.



    This is what puzzles me. If you started off with conviction for the Democracy Agenda, how did the left's despicable reaction to it and attempts to discredit it and Bush, for politic points, cause you to change your entire view of America's role in the world? Did you somehow buy into what the left said about it? They certainly offered no explicit alternative.



    Indeed. I think many conservatives, while concerned about the power fundamentalists may attain, and also concerned about damage to our economic interests (we only import 10% of all ME oil), fully support the ideal of democratizing the ME. Even the Realists.



    We disagree. We do have serious business at home but we have never had to focus on only one issue at one time. We can do both. We aren't going to be invading another country...Iraq was a one time deal and invasion is no longer necessary as the wave of democratization is sweeping the region on its own merits. But we do have a significant diplomatic and economic role to play in these developments.

    Obama is doing exactly the right thing and I applaud him for it!
    I would like to agree with you. I sincerely hope you are right with one proviso.

    Look at the last sentence of your post. Speaking figuratively, cut off the head of the snake and the tail don't rattle. My radicalization by the left is complete. I am reminded of Oppenheimer at Alamagordo: "I have become death, the destroyer of worlds."

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Obama is doing exactly the right thing and I applaud him for it!
    Look at the last sentence of your post. Speaking figuratively, cut off the head of the snake and the tail don't rattle. My radicalization by the left is complete. I am reminded of Oppenheimer at Alamagordo: "I have become death, the destroyer of worlds."
    Sorry, I don't get what you are saying. Could you be precise and specific rather than using allegory, please?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Sorry, I don't get what you are saying. Could you be precise and specific rather than using allegory, please?
    It seems he's saying that his disgust with the left has made him so radicalized in opposition to them that even if the figurehead of "the left" does something right he's unwilling to acknowledge it or even view it as such because he thinks the only way to "kill the snake" is to "cut off its head" (in this case, the most powerful person on the left in this country) at all costs. Essentially, that he's become so radical that disagreeing with Obama on something Obama is theoritically "correct" on is the better option in his mind because it makes the long term goal of removing Obama easier, and thus he's willing to essentially be wrong on an issue in the short term by opposing what Obama's doing because it'll do better for his radical view in the long term.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Sorry, I don't get what you are saying. Could you be precise and specific rather than using allegory, please?
    What happens in the world is a matter of intellectual curiosity. The life of the mind knows no limits.

    But my practical focus is exclusively on the American left and the destruction of their world. I have now embraced leftist tactics to destroy leftist ideology. American leftists are unrelenting, unremitting, and they cannot be deterred. They believe the ends justify the means. They believe their perveived moral superiority gives them license to use any tactics regardless of the consequences.

    That being the case, one can only engage them with the same degree of relentlessness.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Semper Fi, MSgt. I so wish I had waited a bit longer and joined the Marines instead of the Army.
    Well, we just have specific roles that allow us to tailor our training towards. The Army is self-sufficient, which forces a very wide spectrum of technical duty. This doesn't really allow for direct and constant infantry training for all. The Marines don't have to train Corpsmen to be Corpsmen, Sea Bees to be Sea Bees, high altitude bombers to drop bombs, etc. We are a very focused organization without the wider vision of distraction. Hell, even the training of our engineers are geared towards understanding structures, not so much to build (unless we are talking defense), but to destroy.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I think Intelligence is one of the best MOSs for our efforts, since Counterinsurgency is won by having the best intelligence: on the enemy, civilians, social networks, corruption, etc, at least according to FM 3-24. The Marine Corps is known for the 3 block war, although now I hear it is the 4 block war: Clear-Hold-Build-Transition. I am very, very glad to hear from you that the Marines are having such a great impact to our ops.

    We've been building on the "human" intel officers in recent years (intel MOS). After the Cold War, we discovered that we had built our intel systems around satellite photo analysis. Ralph Peters (Army LtCol retired) wrote about this danger in the late 90s. He mentioned how we were doing oursleves and the world a disservice by ending many of our regional Cold War programs that served the local populations in terms of relationships, financial aid, technical aid, and educational aid. Washington's idea that the Berlin Wall coming down meant an "end to our wars" was not only near sighted, but absolutely stupid on a criminal level. 9/11 was absolute proof that our intel networks hadn't the ability to peer into a man's soul where a satellite can't reach. Human intel places our individuals in personal contact with human beings and we are trying to merge their cultural history, current events, and environmental considerations into a proper conclusion that can aid us in our efforts.



    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Thanks for the overview of AFG and all the best in your deployment!
    Always welcome.

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