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Thread: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Mira, it was the whole point in doing it. We would not have bothered otherwise. It was the core strategy.
    No come on, stop it please. You don't actually believe that, do you ? please tell me that this is a joke.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    What does Democracy mean to any dignified human being ?
    Democracy has no fixed definition. That's why I asked you about how the Egyptians, and Arabs, conceived of democracy.

    The Democratic People's Republic of Korea considers itself a democracy. The European Union considers itself an aggregation of democracies, but many people consider the EU to be a bureaucratic dystopia.

    I'm looking for reasoned analysis. That's really important. One learns from new perspectives.

    There is no democratic tradition in the Arab world. There is no intelligentsia or other elite in the Arab world that has a coherent view of democracy to the best of my knowledge. I thought you could give me insight.

    Conservatives in America believe that democracy to Arabs means one election one time. In other words we believe the absence of any experience or incubation of democracy in the Arab world, combined with the current level of education among average Arabs, means that Arab voters will place their trust in religious figures who they hope have a higher morality. But once religious figures coopt a popular revolution there will be election fraud of the type we see in Iran, or power plays by groups like Hezbollah like we see in Lebanon.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Mira View Post
    Do you honestly, honestly, I mean looking yourself in the mirror kind of honestly, think that Bush's aim was to bring democracy to Iraq ??

    And is that what you think Arabs are all about ? Dictators/Slaves and Muslim fundementalists ?


    They don't gasp freedom as YOU do ? are you saying they are some kind of an inferior species ?
    Partly, sure.

    He wanted a regime change. His intelligence information (and Clinton's) said there were weapons programs in Iraq that were providing for terrorist groups. 9/11 had just occurred. The region was growing increasinly unstable, and still is.

    But yes, I believe he thought that if there was a chance that we could get rid of Saddam and install a seed of democracy, there was a chance it could take root and spread across the Middle East in time. Perhaps a century or so, but in time.

    You don't think that was part of it?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    How many muslim males do you know, face to face? I bet fewer than 1.
    I know lots of Muslim males. Everybody needs estate planning. They reveal things to me because they know their confidences cannot be betrayed.

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Democracy has no fixed definition. That's why I asked you about how the Egyptians, and Arabs, conceived of democracy.

    The Democratic People's Republic of Korea considers itself a democracy. The European Union considers itself an aggregation of democracies, but many people consider the EU to be a bureaucratic dystopia.

    I'm looking for reasoned analysis. That's really important. One learns from new perspectives.

    There is no democratic tradition in the Arab world. There is no intelligentsia or other elite in the Arab world that has a coherent view of democracy to the best of my knowledge. I thought you could give me insight.

    Conservatives in America believe that democracy to Arabs means one election one time. In other words we believe the absence of any experience or incubation of democracy in the Arab world, combined with the current level of education among average Arabs, means that Arab voters will place their trust in religious figures who they hope have a higher morality. But once religious figures coopt a popular revolution there will be election fraud of the type we see in Iran, or power plays by groups like Hezbollah like we see in Lebanon.

    Excellent post ! thank you ! I will be back to discuss it with you. Worth a thread on its own though.

    Right now my son is preparing me a c--ktail and neighbour coming over for a drink.

    talk to you later.
    "True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
    To understand does not mean to support or to excuse

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    That's funny...

    Are you suggesting you invaded Iraq because it had a dictator...

    I don't remember that as one of the reasons...
    Getting rid of Saddam was a huge reason. You don't recall the discussions of a regime change in Iraq?

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I think we can expect conservative skeptics on Fox News to change some of their tune now. Because of the treatment of journalists in Egypt by the mob, we can be assured that journalists of any ideological stripe will stick to their tribe and demand that justice be delivered to their sacred job.
    Haha.

    ten characters

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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't agree with Ricksfolly's spin on the story, but American corporations would not have been allowed to sell dangerous chemicals (aka teargas) outside the U.S. without tacit government permission.
    M7's are military issue, and when I read apdst's comment about not having the "made in USA" on them, that's the way I took it and didn't pay it no mind. My recollection of CS canisters were they were either Green/White or White and had M7A3 - CS stamped on them. Sure, there's tons of company's in the U.S. who make CS canisters and exporting them, but I was thinking military issue.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-03-11 at 04:51 PM.
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    Re: Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Haha.

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    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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