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Riots erupt in Egypt as protesters demand end to Mubarak regime

Conservative said:
The vacuum left by the fall of the Shaw led to the Islamic fundamentalist takeover of the country and will do the same thing in Egypt now according to Ginsberg.
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I don't think so. The Egyptian issues are basically economic and fundamental rights issues. The Islam of mainstream Egypt is generally moderate and not as conservative as the Sunni Islam of Saudi Arabia. Al-Azhar University in Cairo is the most respected center for Islamic/Arabic studies in the world.
 
Zyroh said:
any king, shah, dictator that's in charge in north africa or the middle east was put there by the US/UK after WW2. any of them that don't have a religious title. think about what a monarchy is, it's reign by bloodline. you think the king of jordan, or the house of saud were kings during brittish occupation? or during the ottoman rule? no, we put them there so they'll do business with us.

this is the prime difference between the iranian election revolt and this egyption one, the iranians weren't revolting against a puppet of a foreign power.
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Name for me a "good" revolution in the region that left the people in better shape? You are really naive when it comes to the rest of the world.
 
Tashah said:
I don't think so. The Egyptian issues are basically economic and fundamental rights issues. The Islam of mainstream Egypt is generally moderate and not as conservative as the Sunni Islam of Saudi Arabia. Al-Azhar University in Cairo is the most respected center for Islamic/Arabic studies in the world.
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Who are the leaders of this revolt and who fills the void when the govt. falls?
 
Conservative said:
Who are the leaders of this revolt and who fills the void when the govt. falls?
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What's it to you?

Do you support the Mubarak Regime?

The people are standing up here, their right to self determination includes by error, or by choice who will govern them after mubarak.
 
Jetboogieman said:
What's it to you?

Do you support the Mubarak Regime?

The people are standing up here, their right to self determination includes by error, or by choice who will govern them.
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Looking back on Iran now would you have supported the Shah if you knew then what you know now?

This is EXACTLY like Iran in more ways than not. The ultimate plan by the radical Islamists was to overthrow and get rid of Mubarek. Fortunately, they had a bad economy to act as their ally and to help them create a revolt based upon economics and stirred the flames with hatred for the person that brought this upon them.

Islamists used the people same way as liberals use minorities. Same way as Stalin used his useful idiots.

This, in almost all aspects, is Iran all over again. The biggest losers in all this will be Israel and the US.
 
Conservative said:
Name for me a "good" revolution in the region that left the people in better shape? You are really naive when it comes to the rest of the world.
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i wasn't saying any revolution was necessarily 'good'. was pointing out that you'd have a bit more energy in your revolution if it was against a foreign dictator (like mubarak) than an elected official (like amadinejad).

you might even compare them to the american revolution and the civil war. both were revolts against power, only one succeeded, and it was the one against a foreign power.
 
Conservative said:
Who are the leaders of this revolt and who fills the void when the govt. falls?
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I've spent a lot of time in Egypt. Urban and rural. I believe I know the people a bit better than you do.
 
Zyroh said:
i wasn't saying any revolution was necessarily 'good'. was pointing out that you'd have a bit more energy in your revolution if it was against a foreign dictator (like mubarak) than an elected official (like amadinejad).

you might even compare them to the american revolution and the civil war. both were revolts against power, only one succeeded, and it was the one against a foreign power.
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LOL, you believe that the elections in Iran were free? You believe that the majority in Iran support Imanutjob? Who benefits from the fall of the Egyptian govt?
 
Tashah said:
I've spent a lot of time in Egypt. Urban and rural. I believe I know the people a bit better than you do.
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I am sure you mean well but you are allowing your own personal opinions to trump reality and history.

This is EXACTLY like Iran in more ways than not. The ultimate plan by the radical Islamists was to overthrow and get rid of Mubarek. Fortunately, they had a bad economy to act as their ally and to help them create a revolt based upon economics and stirred the flames with hatred for the person that brought this upon them.

Islamists used the people same way as liberals use minorities. Same way as Stalin used his useful idiots.

This, in almost all aspects, is Iran all over again. The biggest losers in all this will be Israel and the US.
 
Conservative said:
Looking back on Iran now would you have supported the Shah if you knew then what you know now?

This is EXACTLY like Iran in more ways than not. The ultimate plan by the radical Islamists was to overthrow and get rid of Mubarek. Fortunately, they had a bad economy to act as their ally and to help them create a revolt based upon economics and stirred the flames with hatred for the person that brought this upon them.

Islamists used the people same way as liberals use minorities. Same way as Stalin used his useful idiots.

This, in almost all aspects, is Iran all over again. The biggest losers in all this will be Israel and the US.
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The factual innacuracies here are vast, and overwhelming.

The biggest losers in this are Israel and the United States?

Well Boo Hoo. I don't really give a flying ****.

This is about the Egyptian people, if they choose that form of government (which is not likely) then that is their choice, not yours.

A foreign people are not subject to the whims of the United States. They have a right to self determination.

Yes an aggresive Egypt is not good news for Israel, but even if Egypt was taken over by an Islamist Regime, they lack the money, recourses and political will for a war with Israel they will certainly lose...

Israel would smash Egypt, again, and again, and again.

Nice to throw in your own personal hackery too with the liberal/minority thing. Doesn't have anything to do with this, but please continue...

I wouldn't have supported the Shah, or the Islamic revolution...

The ultimate plan is to overthrow Mubarek by islamists? Do you think all Egyptians in the streets, and on the ground are in on this plot? That's not what they're chanting, doesn't seem like that's what they want...

Should a brutal islamist regime take over, protests would begin all over again, and I cannot see the army supporting such a regime...

But continue, you know OH SO MUCH about this subject...
 
Looks like Egypt is heading towards anarchy.
Now that the army and security forces are being kept busy by the riots, people are engaging in theft and robbery, breaking into apartments and robbing citizens on the streets. Meanwhile vandals are destroying everything from cars to whole stores, setting buildings on fire and destroying the entire country.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The factual innacuracies here are vast, and overwhelming.

The biggest losers in this are Israel and the United States?

Well Boo Hoo. I don't really give a flying ****.

This is about the Egyptian people, if they choose that form of government (which is not likely) then that is their choice, not yours.

A foreign people are not subject to the whims of the United States. They have a right to self determination.

Yes an aggresive Egypt is not good news for Israel, but even if Egypt was taken over by an Islamist Regime, they lack the money, recourses and political will for a war with Israel they will certainly lose...

Israel would smash Egypt, again, and again, and again.

Nice to throw in your own personal hackery too with the liberal/minority thing. Doesn't have anything to do with this, but please continue...

I wouldn't have supported the Shah, or the Islamic revolution...

The ultimate plan is to overthrow Mubarek by islamists? Do you think all Egyptians in the streets, and on the ground are in on this plot? That's not what they're chanting, doesn't seem like that's what they want...

Should a brutal islamist regime take over, protests would begin all over again, and I cannot see the army supporting such a regime...

But continue, you know OH SO MUCH about this subject...
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Your jealousy of this country is quite telling. The United States isn't a threat to world peace and properity, radical Islam is and people like you who serve as a proxy. Keep that head buried in the sand then expect the U.S. to bail you out when ignorance leads to the kind of govt. that Iran got after the Shah.
 
Apocalypse said:
Looks like Egypt is heading towards anarchy.
Now that the army and security forces are being kept busy by the riots, people are engaging in theft and robbery, breaking into apartments and robbing citizens on the streets. Meanwhile vandals are destroying everything from cars to whole stores, setting buildings on fire and destroying the entire country.
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Here is what is coming in Egypt, IMO.

The people of Iran wanted a duly elected, civil government, and still do. The vast majority of rioters and protestors in Iran were not Islamic radicals. All it takes are a few well placed radical leaders blending in with the populace to take control when the void occurs. They claim power in the name of the people. They swear to have immediate elections as soon as possible and things calm down. They take control of the military and the police and before the people know it, the extremists are running the country.

That happened in Iran and will happen in Egypt as HUGE amounts of money and support from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Iran and other Arab Muslim nations will pour in.

That money will go to the religious leaders who will prop up the econmomy and look like heroes. They will remain in power and be convert Egypt into another religious Islamic state.
 
Conservative said:
Your jealousy of this country is quite telling. The United States isn't a threat to world peace and properity,
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What a twist.

Didn't answer my earlier question by the way.

You support an anti-democratic dictator Muberak, maybe it's people like you we should be worried about.

I don't hate the United States, I actually quite like it, but what is happening in Egypt should be none of your concern, the people will decide. The people always decide.

radical Islam is and people like you who serve as a proxy.
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So you can't defeat my argument, so you accuse me basically of being a terrorist sympathizer...

And then you'll say something along the lines of...

"Well, if that's the way you interpret it, I can't help you".

Keep that head buried in the sand then expect the U.S. to bail you out when ignorance leads to the kind of govt. that Iran got after the Shah.
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Bail me out? Who's gonna bail me out, and why? I'm not Egyptian. This entire sentence is meaningless to me.
 
Jetboogieman said:
What a twist.

Didn't answer my earlier question by the way.

You support an anti-democratic dictator Muberak, maybe it's people like you we should be worried about.

I don't hate the United States, I actually quite like it, but what is happening in Egypt should be none of your concern, the people will decide. The people always decide.



So you can't defeat my argument, so you accuse me basically of being a terrorist sympathizer...

And then you'll say something along the lines of...

"Well, if that's the way you interpret it, I can't help you".



Bail me out? Who's gonna bail me out, and why? I'm not Egyptian. This entire sentence is meaningless to me.
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Here is what is going to happen in Iraq, IMO, regardless of your rants and attempts at diversion. You really do have an obsession with me.

The people of Iran wanted a duly elected, civil government, and still do. The vast majority of rioters and protestors in Iran were not Islamic radicals. All it takes are a few well placed radical leaders blending in with the populace to take control when the void occurs. They claim power in the name of the people. They swear to have immediate elections as soon as possible and things calm down. They take control of the military and the police and before the people know it, the extremists are running the country.

That happened in Iran and will happen in Egypt as HUGE amounts of money and support from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Iran and other Arab Muslim nations will pour in.

That money will go to the religious leaders who will prop up the econmomy and look like heroes. They will remain in power and be convert Egypt into another religious Islamic state.
 
Egyptians rush to save Tut's riches

As the fire raged, would-be thieves started entering the grounds surrounding the museum, The Associated Press reported. But other young men, some armed with truncheons taken from the police, formed a protective human chain outside the museum's main gates. "I'm standing here to defend and to protect our national

treasure," one of the men, a 40-year-old engineer named Farid Saad, told AP.
AP quoted 26-year-old Ahmed Ibrahim as saying that it was important to guard the museum because it has "5,000 years of our history. If they steal it, we'll never find it again."
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Cosmic Log - Egyptians rush to save Tut's riches

Egyptians form human shield to protect museum | euronews, world news

One Cairo building that has been spared so far in the anti-government protests is the Egyptian Museum, despite a fire raging at the ruling National Democratic Party office nearby.

Locals were determined to protect national treasures.

“We are Egyptians and this is the Egyptian Museum,” said one man.

“We are standing here and calling for the army to come as soon as possible and we will not leave until the army arrives.”

The museum houses pharaonic treasures including the death mask of Tutankhamun.

The walls of the building were daubed with grafitti reading “down with the dog Mubarak.”
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For the love of god. Do not end up like Iraq and Baghad where the national treasures were stolen - Many not even returned. They are priceless.

h2fw.jpg

Human shield formed to protect Museum
 
Ben K. said:
Are you then saying that the protests in Iran had nothing to do with what happened in Iraq then, since they're not Arab? I don't think events like this are as tribalistic as you assume.
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Leading to the conclusion that you don't know what you are talking about. Very little in the Middle East goes without affecting the region somehow. Their entire history is absolutely telling. Funny how you people are so quick to point out negativity throughout the region due to local events, but so very desperate to deny all things positive and pretend that borders without windows is the Middle East experience.
 
Day 5 of protests
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71609229-egypt.jpg
 
Conservative said:
Who are the leaders of this revolt and who fills the void when the govt. falls?
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It doesn't matter. These kinds of activities are exactly what this entire region has to start going through. It's this temporary "instability" or the Cold War prescription of "stability" people pretend to scoff at only when convenient to blast on America. Eventually, the same global Left who criticize our support of twisted out regimes will move to criticize the instability the EGyptian people have created. When oil gets rediculous, these same pretenders will finda reaason to bitch about America's inability to maintain the status quo.

Let them uprise, coup, rebel, and revolt. It's their choice and as long as they seek everything that the West hypocritically has had a hand in denying them, then we should accept our post Cold War path. The Muburaks, Shahs, Husseins, House of Sauds, etc. are in the past. Even "greater" Europe began recognizing this circa 2005 (though certain individuals here will mention all things as influence -even willing to go as far back as 1979 Iran- to avoid Iraq's role, which sparked it all.)
 
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Apocalypse said:
Looks like Egypt is heading towards anarchy.
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It would be temporary. If this were the Cold War, we would be stuck rushing towards them to beat the Soviets so that we could prop up our own "stability." But this is not the Cold War. Even the mighty French took 70 years or so to get Democracy right and they elected an rampaging Emperor along the way (coencidentally invading Egypt too).
 
From an apartment in Downtown Toronto, protest happening at this very second, just took the video.

I'll take more when I get on the ground and post them.

 
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apdst said:
This is the biggest problem. People hate America, mostly, because they're uninformed.
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You are being too kind, Apdst.

Most of these people, though able to walk upright, speak and read, are simply mis-educated. What they have learned from their familiar sources is wrong. Thus, even in the first world where information is easily available, we have anti Americanism from people who seriously ought to know better. In this latest crisis with the rioting Egyptians, as we can see, it's not the fault of the Egyptians, or their governments, educational system, culture, etc., it's the fault of the Americans. And they say this with a confidence only the woefully uniformed and stupifyingly ignorant can muster.

These responses encourage the idea that civilized man isn't far removed from the cave. We can teach people to read and write, and a monkey to distinguish colours in order to get a piece of fruit, but it's still far removed rational thought. They press a button saying "The Americans did it" only because its easy and they get instant reward, from the likeiminded other monkeys.

What they don't appear to realize is that is that it is in the interests of everyone that Americans succeed in their foreign policy efforts. If they fail we'll all suffer as a consequence.

Many supported Nazism during WWII, the Communists during the Cold War, and will not even say an unkind word against the Islamofacists of today. Yet should the Islamists take over Egypt and the Middle East, these same people will also blame American foreign policy for their policy failures. They never support the Americans in their endeavours but only criticize with their 20/20 hindsight, even if it means misrepresenting the facts in order to do so.

Put up the barricades, cease further emigration and allow the Islamists to take control of the Middle East and then Europe. We can watch it all on out big screen TV's.
 
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Conservative said:
Here is what is coming in Egypt, IMO.

The people of Iran wanted a duly elected, civil government, and still do. The vast majority of rioters and protestors in Iran were not Islamic radicals. All it takes are a few well placed radical leaders blending in with the populace to take control when the void occurs. They claim power in the name of the people. They swear to have immediate elections as soon as possible and things calm down. They take control of the military and the police and before the people know it, the extremists are running the country.

That happened in Iran and will happen in Egypt as HUGE amounts of money and support from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Iran and other Arab Muslim nations will pour in.

That money will go to the religious leaders who will prop up the econmomy and look like heroes. They will remain in power and be convert Egypt into another religious Islamic state.
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You nailed it. If this wasn't instigated by the Islamists it will certainly be to their benefit. It's a putsch.
 
Jetboogieman said:
You support an anti-democratic dictator Muberak, maybe it's people like you we should be worried about.

I don't hate the United States, I actually quite like it, but what is happening in Egypt should be none of your concern, the people will decide. The people always decide.
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So you feel that the Russians decided on Stalin, the Chinese on Mao, the Cubans on Castro and the Iraqis on Saddam?

What's happening in Egypt and the Middle east should be everyone's concern and only the hopelessly naive would believe otherwise.
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Grant said:
Put up the barricades, cease further emigration and allow the Islamists to take control of the Middle East and then Europe. We can watch it all on out big screen TV's.
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Until we are forced to learn the lessons we have learned time and again already, which is that our security has always relied upon the stability and health of foriegn regions. Eventually standing by and pretending that we don't have to be involved in their messes only costs more American lives and treasure. There's a reason that we created the League ofNations and the United Nations. Since they were created even after we had achieved the greatest power in the world and then in history, it was more for their benefits than ours. Eventually, these people would just suck us out again.
 
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