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Thread: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    He absolutely can, if he uses a public facility (white house) and public resources (planes, phones, etc.) for political purposes. The Hatch Act requires political representatives to conduct their political activities separately from their elected responsibilities.
    That too.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    He absolutely can, if he uses a public facility (white house) and public resources (planes, phones, etc.) for political purposes. The Hatch Act requires political representatives to conduct their political activities separately from their elected responsibilities.
    If that's the case, then every president since FDR has violated the Hatch Act, in some way, or another. That would mean that the president would have to hire a private plane, when he went to a political rally, vice using Air Force 1.

    I believe this is the most feeble of a long line of feeble attempts to pin something on GW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If that's the case, then every president since FDR has violated the Hatch Act, in some way, or another. That would mean that the president would have to hire a private plane, when he went to a political rally, vice using Air Force 1.

    I believe this is the most feeble of a long line of feeble attempts to pin something on GW.
    I think this is yet again another feeble misunderstanding on your part.

    At least seven Cabinet secretaries to President George W. Bush took politically motivated trips at taxpayer expense while aides falsely claimed they were traveling on official business, the independent Office of Special Counsel said Monday night in concluding a three-year probe.

    Federal Eye - Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes
    This is a problem. Do you really fail to understand why?
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 01-26-11 at 12:00 PM.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The Bush white house violated the act. In the WH there are civil servents, working under the president. Seems to me there is an important element here you're overlooking. The claim is his Adminsitration violated it, civil servents working on his orders.
    Can the Nuremburg defense really fly, here? I'm thinking, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think this is yet again another feeble misunderstanding on your part.



    This is a problem. Do you really fail to understand why?
    Do cabinet members ever not travel at tax payers expense? If Nancy Pelosi took the jet, that the taxpayers are paying for, to a political rally, would that also be a violation of the Hatch Act?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Can the Nuremburg defense really fly, here? I'm thinking, no.
    You should really stop practicing law as an amateur at this point since you've just thoroughly embarrassed yourself.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    You should really stop practicing law as an amateur at this point since you've just thoroughly embarrassed yourself.
    Here come the insults. wait for it....wait for it....



    Since when are cabinet members civil servants?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Can the Nuremburg defense really fly, here? I'm thinking, no.
    Defense? Can you really excuse the orders of the president? In Nuremburg weren't both those who ordered the crimes punished with those who committed them?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Defense? Can you really excuse the orders of the president? In Nuremburg weren't both those who ordered the crimes punished with those who committed them?
    If they're unlawful orders, you can.

    The evidence is getting thinner by the minute.

    trufers gone wild.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Bush officials violated Hatch Act, agency concludes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Do cabinet members ever not travel at tax payers expense?
    Absolutely, when they travel on personal time for personal activities. Campaigning is done at the campaign's or personal expense, not at federal expense, for government officials (different from the president).

    If Nancy Pelosi took the jet, that the taxpayers are paying for, to a political rally, would that also be a violation of the Hatch Act?
    It's amazing how you have zero facts in your possession, and yet, you feel entitled to an opinion. This article has a good explanation of the travel rules for political campaign travel.

    Consider reading it.

    Taxpayers pay for Bush's campaign travel - Politics - msnbc.com

    This issue is covered in federal regulations here: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...1cfr9004.7.htm

    (5)(i) If any individual, including a candidate, uses a government
    airplane for campaign-related travel, the candidate's authorized
    committee shall pay the appropriate government entity an amount equal
    to
    :
    (A) The lowest unrestricted and non-discounted first class
    commercial air fare available for the time traveled, in the case of
    travel to a city served by a regularly scheduled commercial airline
    service; or
    (B) The lowest unrestricted and non-discounted coach commercial air
    fare available for the time traveled, in the case of travel to a city
    served by regularly scheduled coach airline service, but not regularly
    scheduled first class airline service; or
    (C) In the case of travel to a city not served by a regularly
    scheduled commercial airline service, the commercial charter rate for an
    airplane sufficient in size to accommodate the campaign-related
    travelers, including the candidate, plus the news media and the Secret
    Service.
    (ii) If a government airplane is flown to a campaign-related stop
    where it will pick up passengers, or from a campaign-related stop where
    it left off passengers, the candidate's authorized committee shall pay
    the appropriate government entity an amount equal to the greater of the
    amount billed or the amount required under paragraph (b)(5)(i) of this
    section for one passenger.
    (iii) If any individual, including a candidate, uses a government
    conveyance, other than an airplane, for campaign-related travel, the
    candidate's authorized committee shall pay the appropriate government
    entity an amount equal to the commercial rental rate for a conveyance
    sufficient in size to accommodate the campaign-related travelers,
    including the candidate, plus the news media and the Secret Service.
    (iv) If any individual, including a candidate, uses accommodations,
    including lodging and meeting rooms, during campaign-related travel, and
    the accommodations are paid for by a government entity, the candidate's
    authorized committee shall pay the appropriate government entity an
    amount equal to the usual and normal charge for the accommodations, and
    shall maintain documentation supporting the amount paid.
    (v) For travel by airplane, the committee shall maintain
    documentation of the lowest unrestricted nondiscounted air fare
    available for the time traveled, including the airline, flight number
    and travel service providing that fare or the charter rate, as
    appropriate. For travel by other conveyances, the committee shall
    maintain documentation of the commercial rental rate for a conveyance of
    sufficientsize, including the provider of the conveyance and the size, model and
    make of the conveyance.
    In other words, when public officials use a government plane for campaigning purposes, they're required to pay for it.

    Second, if a trip is both public business AND campaign activities, they are required to pay for the portion of the travel that is campaign related.

    Bush's administration DID NOT DO THIS.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 01-26-11 at 12:29 PM.

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