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Thread: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

  1. #41
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'd like to see at least one solid attempt at an argument that there is a fourth amendment violation. If the people complain about this being unconstitutional actually learned the law and applied it to the situation they would see how cut and dry this whole thing is.

    The burden is on them to put forward an argument. Even an bad argument would at least be something to discuss. But so far I haven't even seen anyone try.
    me too but there arent any
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    My ecounters with the TSA have been nothing but professional except for one instance. I thing this is all overblown with Vetura just wanting some plublicity. Why don't people quite whining as we all have the same equipment and just be done with it and get on the GD plane.
    the guards at auschwitz behaved extremely professionally, let's give them a pass. [/sarcasm]
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

  3. #43
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What would stop them from saying when you drive or walk on sidewalks you give implied consent? You don't have to drive. You don't have to walk on the sidewalk.
    Public roads and sidewalks are public, you have a right to walk along a public sidewalk without being subjected to a search. That is not true about private airlines. You do not have a right to fly.

    Thus, your analogy is a failure. A better analogy to the TSA matter would be a privately owned roads or privately owned sidewalks that required a search before you could use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Strip searches and invasive pat downs without reasonable cause or warrant are a violation of the 4th.
    Not if you consent to them they aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You going to an airport is not probable cause.
    Irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You do realize the constitution is a restriction on what the government can and can not do?
    Right, and the government isn't overstepping any boundaries here. The government has regulated airline policy, and private airlines have implemented the TSA policy. The passenger does not have the right to fly, and thus give their consent to any search required to fly (and if they refuse they suffer no penalty beyond the fact that they don't get to fly on the privately owned airline).

    Is there anything else I can clear up for you?

  4. #44
    Student Zyroh's Avatar
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'd like to see at least one solid attempt at an argument that there is a fourth amendment violation. If the people complain about this being unconstitutional actually learned the law and applied it to the situation they would see how cut and dry this whole thing is.

    The burden is on them to put forward an argument. Even an bad argument would at least be something to discuss. But so far I haven't even seen anyone try.
    i mentioned ventura's exact argument earlier, and you didn't bother to argue back against it. maybe you don't see the argument because you don't want to? i think you're better off sticking to the 'if we don't do this the terrorists win' argument.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

  5. #45
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What would stop them from saying when you drive or walk on sidewalks you give implied consent? You don't have to drive. You don't have to walk on the sidewalk.
    you mean besides common sense and the constitution? LMAO

    easy you are NOT partaking in a service in which you imply consent, like I said common sense

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Strip searches and invasive pat downs without reasonable cause or warrant are a violation of the 4th.
    yes they are WITHOUT consent

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You going to an airport is not probable cause.
    correct, nobody said it was nor is probably cause used to search you, sorry you are misinformed

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You do realize the constitution is a restriction on what the government can and can not do?
    yes I do and you are correct to bad that is not being infringed on LMAO

    seems you have a HUGE disconnect about REALITY and what actually is going on
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    thus give their consent to any search required to fly (and if they refuse they suffer no penalty beyond the fact that they don't get to fly on the privately owned airline).
    actually these are all publicly owned airlines. the private ones generally don't put their passengers through this, mostly because they're rich enough they can afford to charter a jet for themselves. but it's pretty acceptable to have a two tier society these days. one set of rules for the elites and one for the rest of us. glad to see you support serfdom, it'll help me to understand your mindset in further discussions.
    Democracy is two wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep willing to contest the vote.

  7. #47
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    i mentioned ventura's exact argument earlier, and you didn't bother to argue back against it. maybe you don't see the argument because you don't want to? i think you're better off sticking to the 'if we don't do this the terrorists win' argument.
    I've already dealt with Ventura's argument. It is utterly bogus!

    The idea is that he "has to fly" because his job requires it, therefore he is essentially being forced into the search. However this fails to meet the legal standard of coercion. Legally, the standard for coercion requires that one be placed in fear of imminent harm. He'd have a good argument for coercion if somebody was holding a gun to his head and telling him he had to fly. But not because his job depends on it. That just isn't how it works.

  8. #48
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    actually these are all publicly owned airlines. the private ones generally don't put their passengers through this, mostly because they're rich enough they can afford to charter a jet for themselves. but it's pretty acceptable to have a two tier society these days. one set of rules for the elites and one for the rest of us. glad to see you support serfdom, it'll help me to understand your mindset in further discussions.
    You may notice that nothing I have written is in support of any of this, merely a statement of fact that there is no Constitutional violation.

    In fact I do not like these regulations. But I am capable of separating my emotional reaction from a rational understanding of the law of the United States Constitution. We are not discussing an opinion; we are discussing law. And the law says that the TSA regulations are not a violation of the fourth amendment.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 01-26-11 at 02:02 AM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyroh View Post
    actually these are all publicly owned airlines. the private ones generally don't put their passengers through this, mostly because they're rich enough they can afford to charter a jet for themselves. but it's pretty acceptable to have a two tier society these days. one set of rules for the elites and one for the rest of us. glad to see you support serfdom, it'll help me to understand your mindset in further discussions.
    wow talk spinning things that are meaningless

    anyway the airplane is just like any service.

    I can open a club tomorrow and have TSA policies for you to gain entrance, no search no entry/service.

    where your rights are, is the right to CHOOSE not to go to my club, just like you can CHOOSE not to fly

    or to use your silly twisted TWO TIER example, if you were rich you could open you own club
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  10. #50
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    Re: Ventura sues over body scans, pat-downs

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    you mean besides common sense and the constitution? LMAO
    I dont think the Constitution said anything or implied anything on sidewalks.
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