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Hawaii law bars release of Obama birth info

It does matter. If he said, look this was happening, I let the commander know, that would end it. Instead, he looks priviledged, treated differently.

It still doesn't mean he was AWOL. :rofl

You were in the service long enough to know that everyone doesn't get treated the same. Nothing new there.

Had a guy in my platoon when I was at Fort Polk, whose dad was a brigade commander in 3rd ID. His dad called my commander and told him to work that kid's ass off and, "make a man out of him". That poor sumbitch couldn't catch a break.
 
none of your freaking business. his CO thought it was a good reason and that should be good enough for you.

Did he? Do we know that, or do you just assume that. Remember, the commander's secutary said the fordged memo did accurately reflect the Commander's thougths. he just didn't write the memo. ;)
 
Nothing. I was actually well liked. We got along well. ;)

May be the reason that you only got extra duty. Were you listed as, "AWOL", or, "absent". They're different.
 
Did he? Do we know that, or do you just assume that. Remember, the commander's secutary said the fordged memo did accurately reflect the Commander's thougths. he just didn't write the memo. ;)

The absence of documentation that Bush was AWOL more than accurately reflects the commander's thoughts.
 
It still doesn't mean he was AWOL. :rofl

You were in the service long enough to know that everyone doesn't get treated the same. Nothing new there.

Had a guy in my platoon when I was at Fort Polk, whose dad was a brigade commander in 3rd ID. His dad called my commander and told him to work that kid's ass off and, "make a man out of him". That poor sumbitch couldn't catch a break.

AWOL is absent without leave. It doesn't matter who knew. If leave was not granted, and there is no evidence leave was granted, then he was AWOL.
 
The absence of documentation that Bush was AWOL more than accurately reflects the commander's thoughts.

No. It tells us nothing about his thoughts.
 
Because even addressing it gives it legitimacy, and there's really nothing legitimate about it at all. It's partisan hackery at its finest. It's no different than 9/11 conspiracy theory people or people who shouted over and over again that Bush stole the election. It's absurd and should be given the amount of attention that it deserves...none.

Well, actually, Bush DID steal the election, but he had to do it. Gore stole it first. Bush was just stealing it back. :mrgreen:
 
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AWOL is absent without leave. It doesn't matter who knew. If leave was not granted, and there is no evidence leave was granted, then he was AWOL.

And...again...without any docs officially stateing that he was AWOL, he wasn't AWOL.

As I said before, leave isn't always documented.
 
And...again...without any docs officially stateing that he was AWOL, he wasn't AWOL.

As I said before, leave isn't always documented.

Not true. If he was not there, not accounted for, then there is a problem.
 
Stick it to me? I don't think he did. No article fifteen.

I consider extra duty and an AWOL charge sticking it to you, when there were other options
 
No. It tells us nothing about his thoughts.

sorry, if the commander "thought" he was awol, there would've been charges. or the commander was a POS in which case you can't fault Bush for putting one over on him.
 
Not true. If he was not there, not accounted for, then there is a problem.

LOL...OMG!...got any proof that he wasn't accounted for? You don't. Do you?
 
I wanna know why all the trufer/birfer haters are here beating up on Boo. Where's they all go?
 
I wanna know why all the trufer/birfer haters are here beating up on Boo. Where's they all go?

Perhpas because there's more substance than birthers have? Just saying.

Anyway, let's start with an overview to refresh our memories:

Irregularities in Bush’s transfer requestOn May 26, Bricken, (commander of the 9921st), approved Bush’s application for transfer. Bricken wrote: “You already understand that this is a Training Category G, Pay Group None, Reserve Section MM proposition.” As an obligated Reservist, Bush was in “Training Category A,” which required the 48 periods of inactive duty training, and 15 days of active duty training, and was required to remain in that Training Category. Training Category “G” offered no training at all. According to Air Force regulations (AFM 35-3, paragraph 14-6), being in "Training Category A" meant that "If a member...will be unable to further train with his unit because of an impending change of residence,...he is required to sign a statement that he has been counseled." That counseling included notifying Bush of his obligation to find a new unit with which he could fulfill his training obligations. [21]

Transfer request is rejected and subsequent performanceThroughout this period, Bush remained obligated to train with his Texas unit, or perform substitute training each month. Bush’s records show that he is credited with no training during these months.[22] Colonel Bricken is on record as stating that Bush made no effort to participate as a Guardsman with the 9921st.[23]

More than a month after the ARPC rejected Bush's transfer request, on September 5, 1972, Bush requested permission to "perform equivalent duty" at the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Alabama "for the months of September, October, and November." He quickly received approval to do so, and was told to report to Lt. Col. William Turnipseed, the base commander, for drills on October 7 and 8, and November 4 and 5 (the September drill dates of the unit had already passed). Bush's grandfather, former U.S. Senator Prescott Bush, died of cancer on October 8, and Bush served as a pallbearer at the funeral in Greenwich, Connecticut. Turnipseed has said that he could not recall whether Bush reported on those occasions.[24]

In 2004 John "Bill" Calhoun, a former Alabama Air National Guard officer who had served at the Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery, home of the 187th, claimed he had seen Bush report for duty "at least six times" between May and October 1972, and that Bush had in fact spent time in his office.[25] However, the payment and retirement records the White House handed out three days prior to Calhoun's claims show that Bush received no pay or attendance credits from April until the end of October 1972.[26]

George W. Bush military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The New York Times reported last February that it had interviewed 16 retired officers, pilots and senior enlisted men who served at the unit and found none who recalled Bush attending drills.

Pay records released in February show Bush wasn't paid for any drills between April 16, 1972 -- the last time he flew with his old unit in Houston -- and October 28 and 29 of that year, just before the conclusion of the Alabama senatorial campaign in which Bush was working. He was also paid for Nov. 11, 12, 13 & 14, shortly after election day. The pay records don't indicate where Bush was on those dates, but Bush has also produced a dental examination record showing he was at the Alabama base on January 6, 1973.

(snip)

Obligation Fulfilled?

Bush has always pointed to his honorable discharge as evidence that he eventually made up any deficiencies in drill attendance and fulfilled at least minimum requirements for service. But The Boston Globe reported Sept. 8 that it had conducted a "reexamination of the records" and concluded that Bush failed to meet the commitments he signed in May 1968, and again before he transferred out of his unit in mid-1973 to attend Harvard Business School.

Boston Globe: The reexamination of Bush's records by the Globe, along with interviews with military specialists who have reviewed regulations from that era, show that Bush's attendance at required training drills was so irregular that his superiors could have disciplined him or ordered him to active duty in 1972, 1973, or 1974. But they did neither.

FactCheck.org: Democratic Group's Ad Revives "AWOL" Allegation Against Bush
 
blah, blah, blah, bush is the devil

move along, nothing to see here. nothing that hasn't happened with countless other NG members since NG began. Bush didn't get any "priviledged" treatment. more likely than not, the commanders at the time were just too damn lazy to do the paperwork required and years later when questioned by the liberal MSM didn't want to admit that they were ****ty commanders.

and FWIW, you don't have to attend every drill to get credit for a "good year" with the national guard. it's not like active duty.

IIRC, the current standard is 60 points. you get 15 points just for being a member, 15 points for attending annual training and 4 points per drill weekend (unless it is a 3 day weekend where you get 6)

you can missed 2-3 drills a year and never make them up and still fulfill your obligation.

It is not that easy to kick someone out or have them recalled to active duty.

the fact that Bush got an honorable discharge is all the "proof" anyone should need that he fulfilled his service obligation. everything else is BS, just like the birthers continual bleating for additional "proof"
 
move along, nothing to see here. nothing that hasn't happened with countless other NG members since NG began. Bush didn't get any "priviledged" treatment. more likely than not, the commanders at the time were just too damn lazy to do the paperwork required and years later when questioned by the liberal MSM didn't want to admit that they were ****ty commanders.

and FWIW, you don't have to attend every drill to get credit for a "good year" with the national guard. it's not like active duty.

IIRC, the current standard is 60 points. you get 15 points just for being a member, 15 points for attending annual training and 4 points per drill weekend (unless it is a 3 day weekend where you get 6)

you can missed 2-3 drills a year and never make them up and still fulfill your obligation.

It is not that easy to kick someone out or have them recalled to active duty.

the fact that Bush got an honorable discharge is all the "proof" anyone should need that he fulfilled his service obligation. everything else is BS, just like the birthers continual bleating for additional "proof"

Show he made them up. (No being honorably discharged is not proof) And I never said Bush was evil. He was reckless with Iraq, made some seriously wrong policy, and his NG record has some questions and gaps. That does not equal evil.
 
Perhpas because there's more substance than birthers have? Just saying.

Anyway, let's start with an overview to refresh our memories:

Irregularities in Bush’s transfer requestOn May 26, Bricken, (commander of the 9921st), approved Bush’s application for transfer. Bricken wrote: “You already understand that this is a Training Category G, Pay Group None, Reserve Section MM proposition.” As an obligated Reservist, Bush was in “Training Category A,” which required the 48 periods of inactive duty training, and 15 days of active duty training, and was required to remain in that Training Category. Training Category “G” offered no training at all. According to Air Force regulations (AFM 35-3, paragraph 14-6), being in "Training Category A" meant that "If a member...will be unable to further train with his unit because of an impending change of residence,...he is required to sign a statement that he has been counseled." That counseling included notifying Bush of his obligation to find a new unit with which he could fulfill his training obligations. [21]

Transfer request is rejected and subsequent performanceThroughout this period, Bush remained obligated to train with his Texas unit, or perform substitute training each month. Bush’s records show that he is credited with no training during these months.[22] Colonel Bricken is on record as stating that Bush made no effort to participate as a Guardsman with the 9921st.[23]

More than a month after the ARPC rejected Bush's transfer request, on September 5, 1972, Bush requested permission to "perform equivalent duty" at the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Alabama "for the months of September, October, and November." He quickly received approval to do so, and was told to report to Lt. Col. William Turnipseed, the base commander, for drills on October 7 and 8, and November 4 and 5 (the September drill dates of the unit had already passed). Bush's grandfather, former U.S. Senator Prescott Bush, died of cancer on October 8, and Bush served as a pallbearer at the funeral in Greenwich, Connecticut. Turnipseed has said that he could not recall whether Bush reported on those occasions.[24]

In 2004 John "Bill" Calhoun, a former Alabama Air National Guard officer who had served at the Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery, home of the 187th, claimed he had seen Bush report for duty "at least six times" between May and October 1972, and that Bush had in fact spent time in his office.[25] However, the payment and retirement records the White House handed out three days prior to Calhoun's claims show that Bush received no pay or attendance credits from April until the end of October 1972.[26]

George W. Bush military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The New York Times reported last February that it had interviewed 16 retired officers, pilots and senior enlisted men who served at the unit and found none who recalled Bush attending drills.

Pay records released in February show Bush wasn't paid for any drills between April 16, 1972 -- the last time he flew with his old unit in Houston -- and October 28 and 29 of that year, just before the conclusion of the Alabama senatorial campaign in which Bush was working. He was also paid for Nov. 11, 12, 13 & 14, shortly after election day. The pay records don't indicate where Bush was on those dates, but Bush has also produced a dental examination record showing he was at the Alabama base on January 6, 1973.

(snip)

Obligation Fulfilled?

Bush has always pointed to his honorable discharge as evidence that he eventually made up any deficiencies in drill attendance and fulfilled at least minimum requirements for service. But The Boston Globe reported Sept. 8 that it had conducted a "reexamination of the records" and concluded that Bush failed to meet the commitments he signed in May 1968, and again before he transferred out of his unit in mid-1973 to attend Harvard Business School.

Boston Globe: The reexamination of Bush's records by the Globe, along with interviews with military specialists who have reviewed regulations from that era, show that Bush's attendance at required training drills was so irregular that his superiors could have disciplined him or ordered him to active duty in 1972, 1973, or 1974. But they did neither.

FactCheck.org: Democratic Group's Ad Revives "AWOL" Allegation Against Bush

I don't see one single doc that shows an AWOL charge. Unless you can come up with a document, or at least his commander saying that he was AWOL, then he wasn't AWOL.
 
Show he made them up. (No being honorably discharged is not proof) And I never said Bush was evil. He was reckless with Iraq, made some seriously wrong policy, and his NG record has some questions and gaps. That does not equal evil.

show me where he HAD to make them up? or weren't you paying attention.

I have two years that don't count for retirement purposes because, due to moving across country, I missed more than the alloted number of drills and never made them up.


questioning Bush's national guard record is just as foolish and pointless as the birthers bleating for Obama's birth certificate.
 
show me where he HAD to make them up? or weren't you paying attention.

I have two years that don't count for retirement purposes because, due to moving across country, I missed more than the alloted number of drills and never made them up.


questioning Bush's national guard record is just as foolish and pointless as the birthers bleating for Obama's birth certificate.

Go back reread. :slapme:
 
Just a question? Why does any one care at this time about Bush's National Guard service?
 
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