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Thread: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/w

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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    You have made a major error. The tsunami waves from international waters brought toxins to the coast of Somalia, not the ships that were seized within the twelve mile limit. So in other words the Somali pirates didn't seize the ships that illegally dumped toxins into international waters. Instead they seized easy targets. Can you explain that flaw in your argument?
    Didn't you read her link?

    Some firms have been dumping waste off Somalia's coast for years, the UN says.
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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I don't think you seem to be understanding me when I say everyone hates Ethiopia.
    Oh and Eritrea doesn't like US. I should have said that earlier.

    Eritrea wouldn't step foot in Puntland as it has to go through Somaliland
    Well of course not... it is a Muslim country... :P The number of Muslim countries that like the US are very small.

    You do realize that modern-day Eritrea is a legacy of Islamic aggression against Christian kingdoms... The port of Adulis was once a very important port of the predecessor kingdom of Axum...
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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Well of course not... it is a Muslim country... :P The number of Muslim countries that like the US are very small.

    You do realize that modern-day Eritrea is a legacy of Islamic aggression against Christian kingdoms... The port of Adulis was once a very important port of the predecessor kingdom of Axum...
    True, US does have that affect on many countries

    Oh I know. Historically Eritrea used to be Christian and part of Ethiopia

    I feel no sympathy for Ethiopia tho. It has stolen land from others and now it is landlocked itself. The world works in funny ways, Ethiopia surrounded by Muslim countries. South Sudan will also have to make friendly with HOA Muslim countries to have access to the sea, as does Ethiopia


  4. #84
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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    True, US does have that affect on many countries

    Oh I know. Historically Eritrea used to be Christian and part of Ethiopia

    I feel no sympathy for Ethiopia tho. It has stolen land from others and now it is landlocked itself. The world works in funny ways, Ethiopia surrounded by Muslim countries. South Sudan will also have to make friendly with HOA Muslim countries to have access to the sea, as does Ethiopia
    Who did Ethiopia steal land from? It was the only independent African nation state for a long time. Ogaden (I presume you speak of this region) was part of Axum at its height, then was part of Islamic kingdoms, and then was regained by Ethiopia prior to the end of the 19th century. Sounds like a region that was fought over by neighboring kingdoms over time... can't say it "stole" the land... nice appeal to emotion, though...
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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Who did Ethiopia steal land from? It was the only independent African nation state for a long time. Ogaden (I presume you speak of this region) was part of Axum at its height, then was part of Islamic kingdoms, and then was regained by Ethiopia prior to the end of the 19th century. Sounds like a region that was fought over by neighboring kingdoms over time... can't say it "stole" the land... nice appeal to emotion, though...
    Ogaden was part of Somalia not Ethiopia. The tribes that have always settled there were never Christian, and still are tied to Somalis in the South. The land belongs to the Darood, not Ethiopia.

    The only reason Ogaden came to Ethiopia is through a colonial back room deal without the say of the people (hence the resistance movement which fights Ethiopia's control) and has been in Ethiopia's possession for only a few decades, as opposed to the centuries it has been Somali territory and history. Eritrea may have history with Ethiopia, Western Somalia does not. Ethiopian Soldiers have done enough damage and have oppressed the people there so badly they have ensured peace will never occur long term without a referendum.

    But I suppose it's justice enough Ethiopia is landlocked and will always be at the mercy of the goodwill of Muslim countries surrounding it.
    Last edited by Laila; 01-25-11 at 11:19 PM.


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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Ogaden was part of Somalia not Ethiopia. The tribes that have always settled there were never Christian, and still are tied to Somalis in the South. The land belongs to the Darood, not Ethiopia.

    The only reason Ogaden came to Ethiopia is through a colonial back room deal without the say of the people (hence the resistance movement which fights Ethiopia's control) and has been in Ethiopia's possession for only a few decades, as opposed to the centuries it has been Somali territory and history. Eritrea may have history with Ethiopia, Western Somalia does not. Ethiopian Soldiers have done enough damage and have oppressed the people there so badly they have ensured peace will never occur long term without a referendum.

    But I suppose it's justice enough Ethiopia is landlocked and will always be at the mercy of the goodwill of Muslim countries surrounding it.
    Ogaden had been under Ethiopian control several times throughout history. Never said they were Christian, but what state in Africa is ethnically homogenous, except for the very small states of the continent. Somalia invaded Ethiopia in the 1970s. When Italia defeated Ethiopia in the 1930s, Ogaden was separated from Ethiopia and attached to its Somaliland colony. It was after that that the "backdoor deal" between Rome, London and Addis Ababa occurred. It merely effectuated a RETURN of land that was taken away from Ethiopia by the Italians in 1936.
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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Ogaden had been under Ethiopian control several times throughout history. Never said they were Christian, but what state in Africa is ethnically homogenous, except for the very small states of the continent. Somalia invaded Ethiopia in the 1970s. When Italia defeated Ethiopia in the 1930s, Ogaden was separated from Ethiopia and attached to its Somaliland colony. It was after that that the "backdoor deal" between Rome, London and Addis Ababa occurred. It merely effectuated a RETURN of land that was taken away from Ethiopia by the Italians in 1936.
    Ogaden was originally part of the Muslim territory in the 13th century under the Sultan. Decades later Ethiopia fought and got the land and subsequently the Muslim natives fought against Ethiopian control and continued to do so for a very long time until the Ethiopians branded those Muslims as enemies of the Lord and invaded the territory and killed the people there. (One of the origins of the Somali/Ethiopian dislike/hatred that still kinda exists today in HOA --- Do I make it obvious? :P). Until the 15th century where it left Ethiopian control.
    The people native to the Ogaden region are of the Darood tribe. The natives to the land speak Somali, are Somali and identify as Somali and Muslim, not Ethiopian. No amount of Ethiopian occupation will change that fact.

    The only reason Ethiopians are oppressing the people there and clinging onto it is because of the high likelihood of oil and gas there which doesn't belong to them!
    Last edited by Laila; 01-25-11 at 11:38 PM.


  8. #88
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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Ogaden was originally part of the Muslim territory in the 13th century under the Sultan. Decades later Ethiopia fought and got the land and subsequently the Muslim natives fought against Ethiopian control and continued to do so for a very long time until the Ethiopians branded those Muslims as enemies of the Lord and invaded the territory and killed the people there. (One of the origins of the Somali/Ethiopian dislike/hatred that still kinda exists today in HOA --- Do I make it obvious? :P). Until the 15th century where it left Ethiopian control.
    The people native to the Ogaden region are of the Darood tribe. The natives to the land speak Somali, are Somali and identify as Somali and Muslim, not Ethiopian. No amount of Ethiopian occupation will change that fact.

    The only reason Ethiopians are oppressing the people there and clinging onto it is because of the high likelihood of oil and gas there which doesn't belong to them!
    Originally??/ 13th century??? It was a part of Axum far before that and for several centuries... Again, Ogaden, like many other places in the world at that time, were fought over by competing states and changed hands a number of times. You can't justify a claim that one state was aggressive and another was not when BOTH engaged in a policy of expanding their state. Ethnic considerations has NEVER been a factor in sub-Saharan state building, and you know it.
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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Originally??/ 13th century??? It was a part of Axum far before that and for several centuries... Again, Ogaden, like many other places in the world at that time, were fought over by competing states and changed hands a number of times. You can't justify a claim that one state was aggressive and another was not when BOTH engaged in a policy of expanding their state. Ethnic considerations has NEVER been a factor in sub-Saharan state building, and you know it.
    Fair enough but then it cancels out the claim from both sides and it should be up to the natives on which side they wish to fall on.

    I have always been a supporter of a referendum because this issue will always be hanging like a cloud. If those in Ogaden choose to stay with Ethiopia. It should be respected ...

    But I doubt anyone would


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    Re: SKorea storms Somali pirates to rescue ship crew Read more: http://www.foxnews.c

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Fair enough but then it cancels out the claim from both sides and it should be up to the natives on which side they wish to fall on.

    I have always been a supporter of a referendum because this issue will always be hanging like a cloud. If those in Ogaden choose to stay with Ethiopia. It should be respected ...

    But I doubt anyone would
    That isn't how international law works. Ogaden is a part of Ethopia. This has been confirmed by treaty. There isn't even a functioning Somali state right now. Granted, abuses by the government in Addis Ababa should be condemned, however, that does not give Somalia a right to invade and begin a war as it did nor does it confer on the people a right to referendum. It violates one of the founding premises of the OAU (the predecessor of the AU) as well as modern international law.
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