• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Hu says China not seeking arms race or domination

Jetboogieman said:
Yeah but they don't, which means there's more to it then that. Even if it started out that way decades ago.

Mistrust often hampers progress.

And we can talk about US involvement and posturing all day.

But the fact is, one day, someone has to let bygones be bygones.
Click to expand...

They don't what? They don't because to this point, we have enough to make it costly for them to do it... don't think they don't want to end our way of life... they have more than a thousand missiles pointed at my country and have passed a so-called "anti-succession" (sic) law...

You don't understand what the Chinese are up to.

Let bygones be bygones? While they are arming to take over my country, threatening many of its neighbors, sponsoring some of the most disgusting regimes on earth and encroaching on the territorial waters of multiple neighbors?!??!
 
Last edited:
China isn't seeking an arms race or domination. Not because of any idealistic views, but simply because it isn't a good strategy. Why start a fight when you make your country far more powerful through economic and technological expansion? Political stability is already an issue and adding more territory would make the problem worse. The most important part of avoiding a conflict with China is to make sure that rational people like Hu stay in charge. The real danger is some aggressive idiot who starts a war out of stupidity rather than self interest.
 
rathi said:
China isn't seeking an arms race or domination. Not because of any idealistic views, but simply because it isn't a good strategy. Why start a fight when you make your country far more powerful through economic and technological expansion? Political stability is already an issue and adding more territory would make the problem worse. The most important part of avoiding a conflict with China is to make sure that rational people like Hu stay in charge. The real danger is some aggressive idiot who starts a war out of stupidity rather than self interest.
Click to expand...

Not seeking an arms race? Are you kidding? They are already in one, with its neighbors... they are already in an arms race with Taiwan and Japan

You don't think they want to add more territory? Why do they claim the entirety of Taiwan as well as territory that is part of a dozen neighboring states, not to mention the entire South China and East China seas? Do you really understand what is going on in this part of the world???
 
Taiwan might as well be facing the Borg. Taiwan doesn't need weapons. It needs a miracle.
 
Vincent said:
In China and Japan, they don't exactly believe in telling you that they're planning to kill you. What else would you expect them to say?
Click to expand...

Japan's our ally...
 
Not seeking an arms race? Are you kidding? They are already in one, with its neighbors... they are already in an arms race with Taiwan and Japan
Click to expand...

I meant an arms race with America.

You don't think they want to add more territory? Why do they claim the entirety of Taiwan as well as territory that is part of a dozen neighboring states, not to mention the entire South China and East China seas? Do you really understand what is going on in this part of the world???
Click to expand...

Most of those are tiny islands or border disputes of no consequence. Taiwan is an issue, but the PRC has had more success with diplomacy than they did with decades of violence. Expanding the exclusive economic zone is simply the inevitable consequence of China's growing power. My point is that the PRC is not out to conquer and annex vast swathes of territory.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The US has always supported Taiwan during times of high tension.
Click to expand...

It was possible for America to support Taiwan when American hegemony bestrode the world like a colossus. But Pax Americana is over. America is no longer the country it was, and can no longer afford to help anyone in need. We advocate freedom for everyone, but now that is as far as we are prepared to go. We will not trade Los Angeles in order to save Taipei.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
Taiwan might as well be facing the Borg. Taiwan doesn't need weapons. It needs a miracle.
Click to expand...

China still has to solve the problem of transporting large numbers of troops across the Taiwan Strait without getting knocked out by Taiwan... they don't have that large a capacity yet...

Jetboogieman said:
As long as America exists taiwan is safe.
Click to expand...

It would be nice if the Obama administration would agree to sell Taiwan the fighter jets and subs Taiwan requires to enhance its own defense capabilities...
 
rathi said:
I meant an arms race with America.



Most of those are tiny islands or border disputes of no consequence. Taiwan is an issue, but the PRC has had more success with diplomacy than they did with decades of violence. Expanding the exclusive economic zone is simply the inevitable consequence of China's growing power. My point is that the PRC is not out to conquer and annex vast swathes of territory.
Click to expand...

They HAVE significant consequence. China claims the ENTIRE South China Sea as its internal territorial waters. That is the world's busiest trade route. The consequences to trade in the this part of the world could be enormous in time of conflict. They are also believed to have considerable resources that the Chinese are already seeking to exploit. It may not have much consequence to you, but to the states of the region, it does. It is actually one reason that Viet Nam and Indonesia have sought greater cooperation with the U.S. and the Philippines maintain close cooperation with the U.S.

Korea and Japan are similarly concerned with developments with China in the East/Yellow Sea.

As for expanding the EEZ, China has no legal authority to do that whether or not its economic is expanding. They are expansionist. You only have to read the rhetoric that passes for news and commentary in Chinese-language news outlets. There are even some government officials who have opined that Russia east of the Urals are rightfully Chinese.
 
ludahai said:
China still has to solve the problem of transporting large numbers of troops across the Taiwan Strait without getting knocked out by Taiwan... they don't have that large a capacity yet...
Click to expand...

The Taiwanese missile test last week failed. China has just developed a new amphibious vehicle that is superior to the LAVs used by the USMC. China is also coming by air. PLA airborne troops have been observed practicing parachute drops over Tibet. They will come by sea and air. Time is on China's side. I wish this wasn't true. But it is what it is.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
The Taiwanese missile test last week failed. China has just developed a new amphibious vehicle that is superior to the LAVs used by the USMC. China is also coming by air. PLA airborne troops have been observed practicing parachute drops over Tibet. They will come by sea and air. Time is on China's side. I wish this wasn't true. But it is what it is.
Click to expand...

CURRENTLY, China can't land enough troops. True, time is NOT on our side, which is why we need more arms to deter the Chinese. There were actually a lot of positives taken out of the test even though the missile itself did not meet all expectations. It is a work in progress.

They can't land a million troops in Taiwan by air and the amphibious craft are in development. They need at least a decade because they can put enough at sea. If Taiwan were able to procure enough subs, that would make it ore difficult to land those craft.
 
ludahai said:
CURRENTLY, China can't land enough troops. True, time is NOT on our side, which is why we need more arms to deter the Chinese. There were actually a lot of positives taken out of the test even though the missile itself did not meet all expectations. It is a work in progress.

They can't land a million troops in Taiwan by air and the amphibious craft are in development. They need at least a decade because they can put enough at sea. If Taiwan were able to procure enough subs, that would make it ore difficult to land those craft.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you've said. But I have two in laws who are PLA officers. They are convinced they can take Taiwan in seventy two hours. They think all that it will require is being able to absorb the losses. They think they can do it. Taiwan must be able to shake their confidence. They remind me of what I've read about some officers in the Imperial German Army who were sure they could take Paris in one week in 1914.

Taiwan has to shake their arrogance. Don't count on Obama. He desperately thinks he needs the Chinese.

I would be with you wholeheartedly, but I look at the current iteration of the American people and I see them as hopeless. The political culture in America has simply destroyed the country's ability to act, even think.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
I agree with everything you've said. But I have two in laws who are PLA officers. They are convinced they can take Taiwan in seventy two hours. They think all that it will require is being able to absorb the losses. They think they can do it. Taiwan must be able to shake their confidence. They remind me of what I've read about some officers in the Imperial German Army who were sure they could take Paris in one week in 1914.

Taiwan has to shake their arrogance. Don't count on Obama. He desperately thinks he needs the Chinese.

I would be with you wholeheartedly, but I look at the current iteration of the American people and I see them as hopeless. The political culture in America has simply destroyed the country's ability to act, even think.
Click to expand...

Taiwanese are NOT arrogant. We are concerned about the situation. However, those in-laws are talking bluster and they probably aren't very high up. Anyone who knows the actual difficulties faced by the PLA and PLA-N KNOW that it won't be that simple. They can't get the troops here they need to take the land.

I know we shouldn't rely on Obama. Republican presidents are much better for this entire region, not just Taiwan. However, at least let Taiwan purchase the weapons it wants. That would be a starter. Also, those missiles that were tested WILL get better and we DO have missiles that can help in defense of the country. Not to mention that the coastlines are heavily fortified.
 
I don't disagree with your points Ludahai, my only argument is that the current regime is not interested in violent conquest. There are elements within CHina who hold a different opinion, and it is important that they be kept from getting control.
 
ludahai said:
Taiwanese are NOT arrogant. We are concerned about the situation. However, those in-laws are talking bluster and they probably aren't very high up. Anyone who knows the actual difficulties faced by the PLA and PLA-N KNOW that it won't be that simple. They can't get the troops here they need to take the land.

I know we shouldn't rely on Obama. Republican presidents are much better for this entire region, not just Taiwan. However, at least let Taiwan purchase the weapons it wants. That would be a starter. Also, those missiles that were tested WILL get better and we DO have missiles that can help in defense of the country. Not to mention that the coastlines are heavily fortified.
Click to expand...

If Obama sells weapons to the Taiwanese, the Chinese won't continue to bankroll him. The Chinese now have some measure of veto power over American actions. Besides, the American Navy is going to shrink along with the US Air Force. America is leaving the world stage.
 
rathi said:
I don't disagree with your points Ludahai, my only argument is that the current regime is not interested in violent conquest. There are elements within CHina who hold a different opinion, and it is important that they be kept from getting control.
Click to expand...

So long as Ma is president, China sees that their interests are being served. However, Ma is VERY likely to lose his re-election bid next year because a majority of Taiwanese are against closer relations with China in a way where it looks like Taipei is kowtowing to Beijing. Depending on who the nominees for President/VP are for the DPP next year (I hope it is Tsai Ing-wen and Su Chia-chuan), the DPP seems to have a very good chance of winning, which would then change the tenor of China's attitude toward Taiwan. If military conquest weren't an option, why did the Chinese government pass the 'anti-succession (sic) law'?
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
If Obama sells weapons to the Taiwanese, the Chinese won't continue to bankroll him. The Chinese now have some measure of veto power over American actions. Besides, the American Navy is going to shrink along with the US Air Force. America is leaving the world stage.
Click to expand...

1. I would LOVE it if the Chinese stop bankrolling the U.S. The U.S. needs fiscal responsibility. Besides, I do believe the importance of the Chinese in this is overstated.
2. The U.S. will not leave the world stage anytime soon. Your doom and gloom has been predicted before. The American people are made of sterner stuff than that.
 
ludahai said:
1. I would LOVE it if the Chinese stop bankrolling the U.S. The U.S. needs fiscal responsibility. Besides, I do believe the importance of the Chinese in this is overstated.
2. The U.S. will not leave the world stage anytime soon. Your doom and gloom has been predicted before. The American people are made of sterner stuff than that.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, maybe no. Americans are different today. Politics is different today. America needs to avoid conflict at all costs. The country is in retreat everywhere on earth.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
The Taiwanese missile test last week failed. China has just developed a new amphibious vehicle that is superior to the LAVs used by the USMC. China is also coming by air. PLA airborne troops have been observed practicing parachute drops over Tibet. They will come by sea and air. Time is on China's side. I wish this wasn't true. But it is what it is.
Click to expand...

You have an uncommon ability to state the obvious.
 
American said:
You have an uncommon ability to state the obvious.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize the Chinese had advanced airborne tactics to the degree they have. I thought they would land troops using amphibious tactics. Now they can land by sea and drop through mass parachute landings. Their airborne ability surprised me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom