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Thread: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Do you have proof of this... a study or something, because the petagon's study is in disagreement with your statement
    proof of the cost of casualties?

    well, i know that the up-front cash that the NOK of a KIA can expect to recieve is $500,000. i don't know what the cost of transporting a body + a military funeral + the benefits that are extended to the survivors are, but my bet would be more than zero.

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Plenty of people have given you first hand experience working with openly gay personnel and provided polls that indicate strongly that even most combat troops who have actually worked with openly gay personnel did not find it to cause any issues.
    bingo. because DADT was in effect.
    Obviously it wasn't very effective if the guy was openly gay.

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Do you guys honestly believe that a person would control their behavior because of DADT but not because of other rules in the UCMJ?
    having seen precisely that on multiple occasions now, i would have to say..... yup. probably to do with the relative punishments. if we were to attach brig time to adultery, for example, that might go some ways to curing that problem.

    Along with this, do you honestly believe that other personnel, who do not approve of homosexuality, would turn homosexuals in for being gay under DADT or for causing problems with DADT in place, but those same personnel wouldn't turn those homosexuals in after DADT is repealed for violating other rules?
    again, yup.

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Could you please summarize?
    Also, just because you have a hypothesis doesn't make it true.
    Enjoy.........

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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I've already explained it to you until I'm blue in the face. I served in a combat arms unit, know the rules, understand how those rules will be interpreted and you still claim I don't know ****. The other ground pounders here have said the same things I've told you and you insist they are full of ****.

    Whatelse is there to talk about?
    well, she was in the Navy. which is totally like the infantry .

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    absolutely they will, the same as women do now.

    sexual tension in a unit = reduced cohesion. it's almost a tautology.



    (apdst: )
    ...so somebody being openly gay automatically causes sexual tension?? LOL

    If you feel sexual tense around openly gay people, then I think you are probably gay and can't admit it to yourself.

    I have actually worked with many openly gay people, in many different types of work enviroments. The manager I work for right now is gay, and he is without a doubt professional and right for the job. I don't think gay people are more prone to creating issues for the rest of the work force than any other professional. I have worked with some straight people who were actually unprofessional, undependable, and disruptive, moreso than the homosexuals. However, that might be because I have worked with less homosexuals. But the gay men and women I have worked for, have all been professional and great team members.

    So if somebody complains that gay people are disruptive in work environments and destroy cohension, then I think the people complaining are more than likely the problem and need to look in the mirror and get over their homophobia.

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I've already explained it to you until I'm blue in the face. I served in a combat arms unit, know the rules, understand how those rules will be interpreted and you still claim I don't know ****. The other ground pounders here have said the same things I've told you and you insist they are full of ****.

    Whatelse is there to talk about?
    All of your arguments are based on your experience in combat units alone. Not based on experience working with openly gay personnel in those combat units. There is a difference between the two. This argument is about what issues will most likely arise from allowing gays to serve openly and how those issues may cause casualties. You guys have no proof for your assertion that these things will happen, especially not they will happen often enough to be an actual problem.

    Could allowing gays to serve openly cause deaths? Yes. Will it most likely cause deaths because of a decline of unit cohesion? Not likely, but possible. Can those deaths be blamed on the policy change? Not unless they are widespread.

    Most likely the deaths that might occur will be few and far between and due to other unit personnel who disapprove of the gay personnel. This means that those people who are incapable of maintaining professionalism while in a combat situation by putting their feelings toward others aside and doing their are the ones that should be blamed, not the policy change.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It did happen prior to 9/11 a lot. We had a few straight guys/girls that signed paperwork in '99 to get out when school got too rough for them. By the 4th or 5th one, our Master Chief said that anyone else in our class that said that they wanted to sign the paperwork was going to have to call their mother up in his office, in front of him and explain to her exactly why the person was getting out of the military. No more signing was done in my class.

    It wasn't long after that or possibly even during that time, the military started expecting people to actual prove that they were homosexual to get out that way. I'm not exactly sure what that proof had to be, but I knew at least one other person, who really was a lesbian, who was able to sign paperwork to be put out under DADT. I do know that she had to go to medical and EO a lot while she was getting out, so I think that she had to talk to someone in medical and someone in EO to prove that she really was a lesbian.
    That is messed up. How can you prove your gay?

    And isn't the policy designed so if somebody else knows your gay and tells, then you can get kicked out? .. and your playing by the rules, not telling

    I think there was a Family Guy episode where Stewie and Brain tried to get kicked out by saying they were gay but it didn't work either... They ended up shooting each other in the foot, so using DADT just to get out has crossed a lot of people's minds. It's in so many movies..

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    having seen precisely that on multiple occasions now, i would have to say..... yup. probably to do with the relative punishments. if we were to attach brig time to adultery, for example, that might go some ways to curing that problem.
    Did the issue involve a gay person who was given special treatment because they were gay? There is a big difference in how men and women in the military treat other men and women in the military vs how people treat others of a different sexuality.

    Also, since DADT is in place, you can't possibly say that you have seen the thing that I described. Homosexuals are not allowed to serve openly. So, if they were causing issues and violating other UCMJ rules, then it is highly unlikely that such behavior would simply be ignored when they could easily be put out for the behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    again, yup.
    Based on what do you believe this? I absolutely don't believe this. I believe that it is very likely that any person would turn someone in for being openly gay would also turn someone in for hitting on them or someone else, for having relationships that would be covered by fraternization rules, or for having sex while on duty. It doesn't make any sense that someone would turn a person in for just admitting that they are gay but wouldn't turn that same person in for violating other policies.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    ...so somebody being openly gay automatically causes sexual tension?
    no. two people being sexually compatible causes sexual tension. as does one person being attracted to another.

    I have actually worked with many openly gay people, in many different types of work enviroments. The manager I work for right now is gay, and he is without a doubt professional and right for the job.
    good for him. and how often, again, do you strip down to your underwear and cuddle with your manager?

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