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Thread: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

  1. #121
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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Also, you need to actually prove that a) sexual tension causes a significant reduction in cohesion, b) the sexual tension between sexualities is comparable to that between opposite sexes in a mostly heterosexual environment with mixed genders, and c) there are not other rules/policies in place that deal with any tension that some may face that could significantly affect unit cohesion.

    So far, everyone has speculation, no one has proof.
    No.....there is already proof. Cohesion in a unit with mixed genders, when compared to units with one gender (infantry), is almost absent of cohesion. The mixture of the genders creates sexual tension and a date scene. Males tend to behave differently around females. Often females get lighter discipline and are allowed to get away with far more than their male counterparts. Some compete with each other to get the attention of the females and this relates to unit performaces. In the end, unit cohesion is broken and individualism reigns.

    When it comes to homosexuals, the one homosexual that comes clean in a Marine Infantry unit will be ostricized and humiliated quite often. A Fire Team consists of 4 people. If one is gay, then this fire team is void of the very important cohesion it needs to perform. This carries on into larger units.

    Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if men have a superior attitude towards women in the work place (because they lack the manly penis of the boys club), then certainly they have an even bigger superiority complex towards the man who has a penis and desires to use it with other peni. There is a certain amount of common sense that one should apply to assuming the probabilities rather than pretending that walking around in the dark is the only way to go.

    The biggest problem people have with this is that they think about flambouyant gays when they think about "serving openly." But flambouyancy is a joke for Hollywood and the Air Force, not the ground forces. Most gays (virtually all in the Corps) will choose to remain private in their sexual abnormalities just for the sake of making a life in the military easier.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-26-11 at 04:52 PM.

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  2. #122
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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    A lack of unit cohesion can cause a breakdown in discipline. A break down in discipline is what caused the My Lai massacre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #123
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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    No.....there is already proof. Cohesion in a unit with mixed genders, when compared to units with one gender (infantry), is almost absent of cohesion. The mixture of the genders creates sexual tension and a date scene. Males tend to behave differently around females. Often females get lighter discipline and are allowed to get away with far more than their male counterparts. Some compete with each other to get the attention of the females and this relates to unit performaces. In the end, unit cohesion is broken and individualism reigns.
    Not a lot of disagreement here. I don't know a lot about this subject, but I'm curious to know about the social dynamics and unit cohesion in coed units of the IDF (of which there are A LOT).

    EDIT: Correction, the only unisex infantry unit in the IDF seems to be the Caracal Battalion. My question about unit cohesion still stands though.

    When it comes to homosexuals, the one homosexual that comes clean in a Marine Infantry unit will be ostricized and humiliated quite often.
    Is this the fault of the gay Marine? Or his unprofessional teammates? It seems NCOs and officers should be enforcing discipline among the ranks in order to prevent such a scenario?

    A Fire Team consists of 4 people. If one is gay, then this fire team is void of the very important cohesion it needs to perform. This carries on into larger units.
    Could it not be argued that because a Gay Marine can't be honest with his brothers-in-arms (the issue of him hiding his own identity is always in the back of his mind), a psycho-social wall is built up between him and his teammates because of this, and that this secrecy results in an erosion of unit cohesion? In which case perhaps allowing gays to open themselves up would enable other Marines to eventually be more accepting?
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-27-11 at 01:24 AM.

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Not a lot of disagreement here. I don't know a lot about this subject, but I'm curious to know about the social dynamics and unit cohesion in coed units of the IDF (of which there are A LOT).

    EDIT: Correction, the only unisex infantry unit in the IDF seems to be the Caracal Battalion. My question about unit cohesion still stands though.



    Is this the fault of the gay Marine? Or his unprofessional teammates? It seems NCOs and officers should be enforcing discipline among the ranks in order to prevent such a scenario?



    Could it not be argued that because a Gay Marine can't be honest with his brothers-in-arms (the issue of him hiding his own identity is always in the back of his mind), a psycho-social wall is built up between him and his teammates because of this, and that this secrecy results in an erosion of unit cohesion? In which case perhaps allowing gays to open themselves up would enable other Marines to eventually be more accepting?
    You're making a great case why gays shouldn't be allowed to serve openly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #125
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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are you saying we should stop discharging everyone that is unfit for service?
    How does being gay make one unfit to serve?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Some would probably say the homosexuals should be fined for it.
    Why should the gays be fined?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    at least they should lose future VA benefits for outing themselves after getting useful job skill training....
    You are making a judgment that they outed themselves just to be discharged. That is an asinine statement. You have no proof that this is what any gay or lesbian did.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I agree, but we'll see how the system handles the transition.
    They should issue Kevlar underpants and panties to the homophobes. That will solve the problem.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    How does being gay make one unfit to serve?
    That's not what I said. Wanna try again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: "Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Sometimes a gay person is unfit for service.

    Hate to break it to you and despite popular belief, gay soldiers are no more of an asset to the military than straight soldiers.
    Sometimes straight folks are unfit for service.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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