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"Don't ask, don't tell" cost tops $50,000 per expulsion, study finds

StillBallin75 said:
But it has worked for the Israelis, the Spanish, the French, the Finns, the Swedes, the Danes, the Norwegians, the Canadians, even the militarily conservative Germans. Are you suggesting that all of those liberal-ass weak European countries are capable of doing something that American can't (being professional, mature, and open-minded)? Maybe you're right. Maybe we ARE different. Maybe our culture is different. But if it really is, and we really can't do better than all of these other countries, then something is really ****ed up about our culture.

Why do you have such low expectations for those who are supposed to be our finest? Why is it that reality and identities have to be concealed for people to fight effectively? I mean, that sure as hell sounds ****ed up to me. I'd want my fellow Marines to be better men than that.
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When was the last time these ****ers were in a real war? Hell, when's the last time the French actually won a war?!? :rofl
 
tlmorg02 said:
I don't understand the problem with gays in the military. Can they hold a gun? Can they shoot? So let them serve.
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It's not that simple, unfortunately.
 
stillballin75 said:
the brits have a smaller military than the us. You expect them to commit the same level of involvement? The size of the british army is about as large as the corps. What is this supposed to be, a pissing match? We were talking about unit cohesion.
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Corps!!!!!!
 
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tlmorg02 said:
I don't understand the problem with gays in the military. Can they hold a gun? Can they shoot? So let them serve.
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They do serve, but people in wheel chairs can hold and shoot a gun. This is bigger than a mechanical sense of how simple or dumb a "soldier" is. The problem is that gays, who will never serve, want those that do to be paraded about for their own social agenda and personal satisfaction. Most gays in the military today are just fine keeping their sexual prowess as private as heterosexuals. It's like old and ugly female politicians voicing to allow women into the Infantry despite the fact that no female in the military wants to be in the hard ass infantry. Let those who voice for it, live it.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
For the last time, it WASN'T SOME CIVILIAN OPINION POLL. It was a SURVEY commissioned by the DoD itself.
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Hold on now. You people have been done an injustice with this poll. Recognize a few things. All of those voting members in this poll came from the non-deployed, which means that most of these numbers were from the non-ground forces, where the majority of the concern is. It wasn't a fair poll at all. Now, I wasn't deployed at the time and I was able to take part in the questionaire. My answers wese more along the lines of "apathetic," but plenty simply dimissed what they knew was inevitable. If they actually released the poll members by branch, you would probably find that most of the numbers were from the Air Force and Navy. But this doesn't mean that I'm not concenrend about the mess that myself and other senior leaders are going to have to deal with.

In the end, none of the loudest voices for "gay rights" will ever don a uniform. The hardship that is to follow, in their social victory, will be felt by others. And after these "liberated" gays have sweated and bled for the rights of these fat ass "superior" civillians, they can come back to America and continue to be denied their rights in the civilian circles. And this is my gripe about the whole affair.
 
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MSgt said:
Hold on now. You people have been done an injustice with this poll. Recognize a few things. All of those voting members in this poll came from the non-deployed, which means that most of these numbers were from the non-ground forces, where the majority of the concern is. It wasn't a fair poll at all. Now, I wasn't deployed at the time and I was able to take part in the questionaire. My answers wese more along the lines of "apathetic," but plenty simply dimissed what they knew was inevitable. If they actually released the poll members by branch, you would probably find that most of the numbers were from the Air Force and Navy. But this doesn't mean that I'm not concenrend about the mess that myself and other senior leaders are going to have to deal with.

In the end, none of the loudest voices for "gay rights" will ever don a uniform. The hardship that is to follow in their social victory will be felt by others. And this is my gripe about the whole affair.
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MSgt I respect your thoughtful and polite response to this issue. But whatever your concerns about the survey, it was not some half-assed opinion poll conducted by civilians as apdst was claiming. I just thought that his personal experience may be valuable, but so are the opinions of others. And since we have been discussing the ground combat forces, that's the demographic that I was focusing on, not the survey as a whole. So in general it can be assumed that the non-deployed ground combat forces are pretty much a microcosm of the same demographic as the whole, correct? Meaning, there probably aren't many differences in attitudes percentage-wise between those who are currently deployed and those who are not.

FACT: About two thirds of ground combat-role Marines who responded to the survey had mixed or negative feelings about the repeal.
FACT: However, the survey also shows that 84 percent of Marine combat veterans who worked with somebody who were gay or lesbian said it did not affect their ability to get the job done.

My question is, can someone please address this discrepancy, instead of dismissing the survey as BS and saying their own experience is more valuable than that of a comprehensive study? Again, I am not referring to the survey as a whole. I was referring to the statistics regarding ground combat veterans. Therefore, the concern about whether or not Navy and Air Force people had the most input is irrelevant, as I am not focusing on the survey as a whole but a specific demographic within it.
 
StillBallin75 said:
MSgt I respect your thoughtful and polite response to this issue. But whatever your concerns about the survey, it was not some half-assed opinion poll conducted by civilians as apdst was claiming. I just thought that his personal experience may be valuable, but so are the opinions of others. And since we have been discussing the ground combat forces, that's the demographic that I was focusing on, not the survey as a whole. So in general it can be assumed that the non-deployed ground combat forces are pretty much a microcosm of the same demographic as the whole, correct? Meaning, there probably aren't many differences in attitudes percentage-wise between those who are currently deployed and those who are not.

FACT: About two thirds of ground combat-role Marines who responded to the survey had mixed or negative feelings about the repeal.
FACT: However, the survey also shows that 84 percent of Marine combat veterans who worked with somebody who were gay or lesbian said it did not affect their ability to get the job done.

My question is, can someone please address this discrepancy, instead of dismissing the survey as BS and saying their own experience is more valuable than that of a comprehensive study? Again, I am not referring to the survey as a whole. I was referring to the statistics regarding ground combat veterans. Therefore, the concern about whether or not Navy and Air Force people had the most input is irrelevant, as I am not focusing on the survey as a whole but a specific demographic within it.
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Another FACT is that most Marines have no idea of the homosexual in their midst (if any) and are worried about the one that may enlist soon and force the issue in a tight unit environment, thereby relying on the individual members to transcend what their upbringing prescribed.

*******I want to get this out of the way so you know where I'm coming from....Personally, after being raised by a devout Christian mother and serving 19 years in the Corps...I simply don't care. Dead Marines and dead civilians tend to force what is important to the front. I believe most of the worry comes down to traditional approval. I also believe that this will be easier than what prior generations had to deal with in regards to racial integration. Another issue is that most boys are raised to see a "man" as a certian thing and that homosexuals fly in the face of that.

As to your question, I can't really speak on it beyond my part. But I can say with conviction that most of the ground forces, where units are tighter, were not participants because they are largely deployed. And it is here where the Commandant has gotten the general concensus that "Marines are concerned." Now it may come down to these concerns being needless. But we won't know until the time comes and it will be the senior leadership (before the junior leadership) to force good discipline and order.
 
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