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Thread: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

  1. #251
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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    which was, after all, the intent.
    It is the Republicans who are trying to repeal, overturn, or otherwise get rid of the individual mandate and thus destroy the private insurance industry, not the Democrats. Of course, the Republicans don't actually have any philosophical problem with the insurance mandate either...they just find that it's the most politically expedient target to attack in the health care bill. The individual mandate was a part of nearly every serious health care reform proposal the Republicans have put forth in the last 20 years, and has been supported by such radical leftists as John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Bob Dole (although the first two now find it more convenient to disavow it).

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    wrong. anyone who supports repealing the individual mandate but not repealing the requirement that insurance agencies cover preexisting conditions without reflecting the increase care in their premiums supports such a thing.
    Uhh you basically just rephrased what I just said. And I agree. Anyone who wants to repeal the mandate without making changes to the other stuff (i.e. the grandstanding Republican governors trying to get the individual mandate overturned) would bankrupt the insurance industry if successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    forcing insurance companies to cover things after they happen is what collapses the insurance industry.
    Not if everyone is required to have coverage all the time. Hence the mandate.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-20-11 at 04:14 AM.
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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It is the Republicans who are trying to repeal, overturn, or otherwise get rid of the individual mandate.
    i believe in Missouri it passed with 70% of the vote? okay; I'll accept that 70% of Americans are Republicans.

    but you misread me. the intent all along was to destroy the private insurance industry.

    Not the Democrats. Of course, the Republicans don't actually have any philosophical problem with the insurance mandate either...they just find that it's the most politically expedient target to attack in the health care bill. The individual mandate was a part of nearly every serious health care reform proposal the Republicans have put forth in the last 20 years, and has been supported by such radical leftists as John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Bob Dole (although the first two now find it more convenient to disavow it).
    and i think it's why Romney won't be our candidate in '12. Because the conservatives are generally the moving force in the party, now, and we tend to take overbearing government reducing the economic liberties of it's people rather seriously.

    Uhh you basically just rephrased what I just said. And I agree. Anyone who wants to repeal the mandate without making changes to the other stuff (i.e. the grandstanding Republican governors trying to get the individual mandate overturned) would bankrupt the insurance industry if successful.
    when you can't kill a monster in one fell swoop; you have to lop off some of its' limbs. individual mandate gone first. followed by other items, such as that under discussion. eventually hopefully we can start to move away from our third-party-payment system that's strangling us with costs.

    Not if everyone is required to have coverage all the time. Hence the mandate.
    required? or taxed? i am more than willing to pay $750 in taxes in order to avoid $11,000 in insurance premiums if i know that - if anything happens - i am still guaranteed health insurance coverage. the "mandate" is a joke; even if we wanted it to work; the tax would have to be at least equal to the cost of health insurance in order for it to function. as it is, it's just designed to be a revenue stream. certainly it's not designed to save the insurance agencies.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-20-11 at 04:17 AM.

  3. #253
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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i believe in Missouri it passed with 70% of the vote? okay; I'll accept that 70% of Americans are Republicans.
    No, I'm talking about the politicians who should know better (or receive economic advice from people who know better), not voters who know little to nothing about the details of the health care reform bill, or how the parts of it interact with one another.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    but you misread me. the intent all along was to destroy the private insurance industry.
    Well if that's the case, the Republicans are doing their damnedest to make sure that it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    and i think it's why Romney won't be our candidate in '12. Because the conservatives are generally the moving force in the party, now, and we tend to take overbearing government reducing the economic liberties of it's people rather seriously.
    I'm not just talking about moderate Republicans. Conservatives in general didn't have a big problem with it, except for the hardcore libertarian types who are certainly not the majority in the Republican Party. Even Newt Gingrich was a big fan of the insurance mandate until the Democrats decided to put it in the bill. Hell, one of the most influential conservative economists alive today, Greg Mankiw, endorsed the insurance mandate back in 2006.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    when you can't kill a monster in one fell swoop; you have to lop off some of its' limbs. individual mandate gone first. followed by other items, such as that under discussion.
    Except if you "lop off a limb" like the individual mandate and bankrupt the entire private insurance industry, the result will be an acute and immediate demand for government intervention, not more limbs being lopped off. The American people are not going to watch their private insurance coverage disappear without expecting the government to get involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    eventually hopefully we can start to move away from our third-party-payment system that's strangling us with costs.
    And how do you propose we do that? Ban people from buying insurance entirely, and just hope that you don't have any major medical expenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    required? or taxed? i am more than willing to pay $750 in taxes in order to avoid $11,000 in insurance premiums if i know that - if anything happens - i am still guaranteed health insurance coverage. the "mandate" is a joke; even if we wanted it to work; the tax would have to be at least equal to the cost of health insurance in order for it to function. as it is, it's just designed to be a revenue stream. certainly it's not designed to save the insurance agencies.
    It does not have to be equal, it just has to be substantial. If I can pay a fine for $100 a month and get nothing, or if I can buy coverage for $200 and be insured, the marginal benefit of the latter is much greater than the marginal cost. I'd be getting $200 worth of insurance for only an additional $100 cost.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-20-11 at 04:45 AM.
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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Do you say that the government mandates that people get married because we give tax breaks to married couples? Of course you don't! So why is it that you consider giving tax breaks to people who have health insurance a "mandate" to buy health insurance?
    Very different situation. You don't get taxed if you do not marry. You DO get taxed if you do not get health insurance. You have to compare a negative to a negative, not a negative to a positive.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    The people in a massive push back gave the house back to the GOP. The GOP acted accordingly. If anyone is shocked by this, where have you been hiding.

    Is it largely symbolic. Yes, for now. But it frames the debate, it sets a real difference between the GOP and the DNC. We'll see more as this progresses. Should the GOP do nothing in the way of defunding and/or refusing to fund the Obamacare law, then it was a wasted partisan show. If they follow up with action then they will have a basis to undermine Obama and make a case for the country in 2012. This is why I think Romney hasn't a snowballs chance in hell of getting the nomination. Should the GOP manage to frame the debate as "we'll repeal this" and have a plan to replace it that doesn't include many of the toxic elements, like forced purchase of health insurance for example, they will be in a good position. If they just make it "Vote for us cause we'll repeal it" Obama and Co will have room to maneuver. The Dem's have only themselves to blame for this mess.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    This is one of those many times that I wish the idiots in Washington could put their stupid partisanship aside and work together. There are good things in healthcare plans from BOTH sides. If they would sit down. take the best points from each, and craft something sensible, we might actually have healthcare reform that not only makes sense and gives everyone an opportunity to have coverage, but also allows choice. Heck, if they work hard enough, it might actually be as good as the plan I developed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #257
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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Is it largely symbolic. Yes, for now. But it frames the debate, it sets a real difference between the GOP and the DNC.
    I agree, it shows a real difference. And that's a debate that Democrats should be more than willing to have. Hell, if the GOP wants to vote to repeal the health care law every month for the entire term of the Congress, knock yourselves out.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio
    Should the GOP do nothing in the way of defunding and/or refusing to fund the Obamacare law, then it was a wasted partisan show.
    It is impossible for the GOP to defund it. Not just in a political sense, but in a legal sense as well. The lion's share of the spending in the health care law is entitlement spending, not discretionary spending. Congress doesn't have to vote on funding entitlements, it happens automatically. That means that if the GOP wants to defund it, they're going to have to repeal it. Yes, there are a few peripheral items in the law that are discretionary spending...but they are minor and uncontroversial items.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio
    Should the GOP manage to frame the debate as "we'll repeal this" and have a plan to replace it that doesn't include many of the toxic elements,
    No such plan exists. Contrary to popular belief, the real world and actual policies are complex. There is no health care system that doesn't include "toxic elements," including outright repealing the law and returning to the previous status quo.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio
    The Dem's have only themselves to blame for this mess.
    What mess?
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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree, it shows a real difference. And that's a debate that Democrats should be more than willing to have. Hell, if the GOP wants to vote to repeal the health care law every month for the entire term of the Congress, knock yourselves out.
    I don't see where you see the advantage here politically. Obamacare is very unpopular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It is impossible for the GOP to defund it. Not just in a political sense, but in a legal sense as well. The lion's share of the spending in the health care law is entitlement spending, not discretionary spending. Congress doesn't have to vote on funding entitlements, it happens automatically. That means that if the GOP wants to defund it, they're going to have to repeal it. Yes, there are a few peripheral items in the law that are discretionary spending...but they are minor and uncontroversial items.
    And entitlement spending is the bulk of the reason we have such a huge deficit. Not really a winner right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No such plan exists. Contrary to popular belief, the real world and actual policies are complex. There is no health care system that doesn't include "toxic elements," including outright repealing the law and returning to the previous status quo.
    Health Care - GOP Solutions for America - GOP.gov

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What mess?

    You must have missed Nancy P having to hand over the gavel cause her party got thrown out of power...
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  9. #259
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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I plan on enlisting in the Marine Corps after college. Hopefully Tricare still works by then.
    Currently in the Corps Tricare still works and if it stops working we still got medical and the Naval hospitals on the bases.

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    Re: Health Care Reform Repeal Passes House

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    we will see what it does in 2012. Making politicians take a stand on an issue has certain value in a campaign

    why is moron carolyn McCarthy trying to introduce more psychotic anti gun legislation in the house?
    How does calling people grade school names advance any discussion?
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