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Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

Viktyr Korimir said:
Because, fundamentally, people who are pro-choice still consider abortion to be a bad thing and desire that there be far fewer abortions in general.

I don't cringe when people call me "pro-abortion", but even in my case it is an inaccurate and emotionally-charged term.
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I haven't seen too many choicers in this thread express that abortion is a bad thing. Quite the contrary, the main argument seems to me to be that it's not a baby, it's just a collection of cells, much like cancer. So what's the big deal? You support the "right" then you support the act.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Blah blah blah. I could care less for whatever twisted reasoning leads you to call pro-choice people pro-abortion. It's an absurd standpoint to take and if you can't see that, there is really nothing I can do for you.
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So only gay people can be pro-gay marriage and only gun owners can be pro-2nd amendment? You should quit being ashamed over the fact you are pro-abortion.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I've already explained my position on the matter. Feel free to continue your pathetic baiting attempts by calling me "pro-abortion". As I said, it does nothing for your cause. Poorly constructed stereotypes rarely do.
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I asked 4 question in that post you replied to. That you couldn't answer any of them is duly noted.
 
jamesrage said:
So only gay people can be pro-gay marriage and only gun owners can be pro-2nd amendment? You should quit being ashamed over the fact you are pro-abortion.
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Those are issues with two absolutist positions. Abortion is a completely different issue. One side is absolutist and the other side advocates choice, not one choice over another. Again, what part of that don't you get? Calling pro-choice people pro-abortion is purely an emotional response.
 
X Factor said:
I haven't seen too many choicers in this thread express that abortion is a bad thing. Quite the contrary, the main argument seems to me to be that it's not a baby, it's just a collection of cells, much like cancer. So what's the big deal? You support the "right" then you support the act.
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Obviously you haven't been paying attention.
 
X Factor said:
I asked 4 question in that post you replied to. That you couldn't answer any of them is duly noted.
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Or, it could be that I didn't respond to your questions because you still insist on baiting by referring to me as pro-abortion when I've sufficiently explained my position. Feel free to duly note that as well.
 
jamesrage said:
The only person you are fooling is yourself assuming you actually believe that nonsense you just typed. No person who is actually pro-life utters that bull **** line that you just spewed for the simple fact pro-lifers view the child in the womb no different than one outside the womb and therefore deserve the same legal protection and the right to life as anyone outside the womb. The whole I view a woman's choice more important than a child's life or I want it to be safe and legal for a woman to kill her child is a load of garbage spewed by pro-abortionist and pro-abortionist trying to con people into thinking they are pro-life.
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What you have showed here is a lack of understanding to what I typed. Personally I am pro-life, but I am not going to force others into my choice. That is why I am politically pro choice. The fact is, that having fetus's aborted, does not have the same negative impact on society that having countless women being maimed, and killed by back ally abortions. That is why I am pro-choice politically, if you can not understand that difference now then you'll never understand it. You don't have to agree with me, just understand where I am coming from, I am not a pro-abortionist by any means, in fact I think it will be very hard to find even 1 pro-abortionist.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Or, it could be that I didn't respond to your questions because you still insist on baiting by referring to me as pro-abortion when I've sufficiently explained my position. Feel free to duly note that as well.
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Weak excuse for not answering my very easy questions given that I have not called you anything other than, maybe, "choicer".
 
Your Star said:
What you have showed here is a lack of understanding to what I typed. Personally I am pro-life, but I am not going to force others into my choice. That is why I am politically pro choice. The fact is, that having fetus's aborted, does not have the same negative impact on society that having countless women being maimed, and killed by back ally abortions. That is why I am pro-choice politically, if you can not understand that difference now then you'll never understand it. You don't have to agree with me, just understand where I am coming from, I am not a pro-abortionist by any means, in fact I think it will be very hard to find even 1 pro-abortionist.
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Explain to me how abortion is actually good for society,
 
X Factor said:
Weak excuse for not answering my very easy questions given that I have not called you anything other than, maybe, "choicer".
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Call it whatever you want. I'll answer the questions I feel like answering. It seems you are interested in little more than baiting.
 
X Factor said:
Explain to me how abortion is actually good for society,
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You have to look at it as a realist. Abortions are NEVER going to stop, you can't ignore that fact, and having abortions legal, is better than having it illegal, due to the fact that it will harm women. Abortion by itself isn't good, but when you put it in the context of the real world, having it legal, is better then having it illegal.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Those are issues with two absolutist positions.
Abortion is a completely different issue. One side is absolutist and the other side advocates choice, not one choice over another. Again, what part of that don't you get? Calling pro-choice people pro-abortion is purely an emotional response
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Lets use your pro-abortion rhetoric to gay marriage and the 2nd amendment.

Being pro-gay marriage does not mean you want every one to marry someone of the same gender.
Being pro-abortion abortion does not mean you want every woman to have an abortion.

Being pro-gay marriage does not mean that you want more gay marriages
Being pro-abortion does not mean you want more abortions.

Being pro-gay marriage does not mean that you yourself would marry someone of the same gender.
Being pro-abortion does not mean that you yourself would have an abortion.

Being pro-gay marriages can mean that you are for it being legal.
Being pro-abortion can mean that you are for it being legal.

Being pro-2nd amendment does not mean you want school kids walking around with guns to school.
Being pro-abortion does not mean you want every female to have abortion.

Being pro-2nd amendment does not mean you want the tax payers to buy every man,woman and child a gun.
Being pro-abortion does not mean you want the tax payers to pay for it.

Being pro-2nd amendment does not mean you would have a weapon.
Being pro-abortion does not mean you would get an abortion.

Being pro-2nd amendment means you support everyone's constitutional right to keep and bear arms without the government infringing on those rights
Being pro-abortion means that you support the legalization of abortion.

You are pro-abortion.If you don't like being pro-abortion then be opposed to legalized abortion.
 
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Dr_Patrick said:
Call it whatever you want. I'll answer the questions I feel like answering. It seems you are interested in little more than baiting.
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Translation: my answers to your questions would not pass the laugh test.
 
Your Star said:
You have to look at it as a realist. Abortions are NEVER going to stop, you can't ignore that fact
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Murder,rape,drive by shootings, car jackings, child molestation, bank robberies and other violent crime are never going to stop. You can't ignore that fact.
and having abortions legal, is better than having it illegal, due to the fact that it will harm women.
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Giving violent criminals bullet proof vests and guns and making their violent criminal activities legal is better because making those things illegal causes them more harm.



Abortion by itself isn't good, but when you put it in the context of the real world, having it legal, is better then having it illegal.
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What a load a horse crap.


What you have showed here is a lack of understanding to what I typed. Personally I am pro-life, but I am not going to force others into my choice. That is why I am politically pro choice. The fact is, that having fetus's aborted, does not have the same negative impact on society that having countless women being maimed, and killed by back ally abortions. That is why I am pro-choice politically, if you can not understand that difference now then you'll never understand it. You don't have to agree with me, just understand where I am coming from, I am not a pro-abortionist by any means, in fact I think it will be very hard to find even 1 pro-abortionist.
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You are one of the other not both. If you are pro-life then that means you want abortion to be illegal because the fact you view the child in the womb to be no different than one outside the womb and therefore deserves the right to life and the same legal protections as anyone outside the womb.
 
jamesrage said:
Murder,rape,drive by shootings, car jackings, child molestation, bank robberies and other violent crime are never going to stop. You can't ignore that fact.


Giving violent criminals bullet proof vests and guns and making their violent criminal activities legal is better because making those things illegal causes them more harm.
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False. Having those things illegal has a better effect on society than having them legal. You are either ignoring my point, trying to distort it, or just don't understand it.




What a load a horse crap.
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It's just the truth, and history shows that.

You are one of the other not both. If you are pro-life then that means you want abortion to be illegal because the fact you view the child in the womb to be no different than one outside the womb and therefore deserves the right to life and the same legal protections as anyone outside the womb.
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You just don't understand the difference between one's personal life, beliefs, and the way they conduct themselves, vs how someone's political beliefs are constructed. Life isn't black, and white, and I can be personally against something, while not wanting it to be outlawed. Having abortion illegal just hurts women, and history has shown that. So if you fail to see the nuance of my position, and the fact that I can be pro-life personally(by the fact that I will never get an abortion, and won't encourage any of my friends to get one either) but pro choice politically, by the fact that the net effect on society is worse by having abortion illegal(like other things ex,weed,prostitution), then having it legal.
 
jamesrage said:
Lets use your pro-abortion rhetoric to gay marriage and the 2nd amendment.

Being pro-gay marriage does not mean you want every one to marry someone of the same gender.
Being pro-abortion abortion does not mean you want every woman to have an abortion.

Being pro-gay marriage does not mean that you want more gay marriages
Being pro-abortion does not mean you want more abortions.

Being pro-gay marriage does not mean that you yourself would marry someone of the same gender.
Being pro-abortion does not mean that you yourself would have an abortion.

Being pro-gay marriages can mean that you are for it being legal.
Being pro-abortion can mean that you are for it being legal.

Being pro-2nd amendment does not mean you want school kids walking around with guns to school.
Being pro-abortion does not mean you want every female to have abortion.

Being pro-2nd amendment does not mean you want the tax payers to buy every man,woman and child a gun.
Being pro-abortion does not mean you want the tax payers to pay for it.

Being pro-2nd amendment does not mean you would have a weapon.
Being pro-abortion does not mean you would get an abortion.

Being pro-2nd amendment means you support everyone's constitutional right to keep and bear arms without the government infringing on those rights
Being pro-abortion means that you support the legalization of abortion.

You are pro-abortion.If you don't like being pro-abortion then be opposed to legalized abortion.
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And I've already explained to you that you can't really compare being pro-choice with other absolutist stances on other issues. Try again.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
And I've already explained to you that you can't really compare being pro-choice with other absolutist stances on other issues. Try again.
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I just proved to you it can. The only reason you abortionists try to play the you can be pro-life and pro-abortion at the same time is so you people can falsely claim that not all pro-lifers support making abortion illegal. Pro-choice is pro-abortion,because wanting it to be legal for a mother to kill her unborn child is the opposite of pro-life.
 
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jamesrage said:
I just proved to you it can. The only reason you abortionists try to play the you can be pro-life and pro-abortion at the same time is so you people can falsely claim that not all pro-lifers support making abortion illegal. Pro-choice is pro-abortion,because wanting it to be legal for a mother to kill her unborn child is the opposite of pro-life.
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Not at all. Pro choice is wanting it to be legal for a mother to make a choice whether it be abortion or otherwise. Hence, the "choice" part of pro-choice. Again, you are basing your rhetoric in emotion and not logic. Try again.
 
X Factor said:
Explain to me how abortion is actually good for society,
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Let me help you understand. I've spent the last 20 years of my life working with people who are unfit to be parents, and the offspring they inflict on the rest of us. We've thrown untold trillions of dollars into a black hole of families that should never have existed. We incarcerate these people, at a cost of around $40k per person, per year. We spend trillions policing them, providing social services to them, removing children from their homes, dealing with the educational problems of their offspring, and the list goes on. If you look at the root causes of crime and delinquency, almost all of it has its origins in the home.

So...let me just say it. Some people are not suited to be parents. If they can self-select, and decide not to have children, we all experience a net gain.

The simple fact of the matter, X, is that we aren't islands. What one unfit mother does affects all of us through the actions of her child.

If that mother cares so little about the welfare of her fetus that she's willing to flush it down a sink, who am I to try and persuade her to follow a different course? If that woman cares so little about the welfare of her fetus, why would we presume that she would do what is necessary to carry a healthy infant to term so it can be adopted?

That woman needs to not be a parent. Clearly she's realized it. It's time for the rest of us to do so, as well. Our foster care/child welfare systems are overwhelmed. Our prisons are overcrowded. Our cops are out-gunned, out-manned, and underfunded. We do not need more unwanted children.

We're already drowning in them.
 
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jamesrage said:
I just proved to you it can. The only reason you abortionists try to play the you can be pro-life and pro-abortion at the same time is so you people can falsely claim that not all pro-lifers support making abortion illegal. Pro-choice is pro-abortion,because wanting it to be legal for a mother to kill her unborn child is the opposite of pro-life.
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"You abortionists." Learn the definition of the word and stop trying to flame.

Are you ProLife, JamesRage? Really? Do your partners use birth control pills? They are abortionists, by your definition. And you are guilty by association.

If ProLifers used half their vitriolic energy toward moving the benchmark and limiting rather than banning it all together, perhaps they could get something accomplished.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
No, I'm saying that I don't have enough information about the legal system to make an informed opinion about it.
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Then why are you in this thread debating? STFU and GTFO if you don't have enough information to form an opinion.

Dr_Patrick said:
It doesn't relate to the debate anymore than your lame drug analogy did. You are comparing an issue where a woman has a choice over what is going on in her own body with an issue where a woman is assaulted by someone else. Try again.
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The national pro-choice groups who opposed the law because they claim it undermines Roe vs Wade would disagree with you.

"The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was strongly opposed by most pro-choice organizations, on grounds that the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision said that the human fetus is not a "person" under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, and that if the fetus were a Fourteenth Amendment "person," then he or she would have a constitutional right to life."
Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do some research before you talk.
 
Johnny Centrist said:
Then why are you in this thread debating? STFU and GTFO if you don't have enough information to form an opinion.
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:lol: I didn't realize you were in charge here. You asked me the question and demanded that I answer it. I told you that I didn't have enough information to give an informed opinion and now you are pissing and moaning about it. Get over yourself.

The national pro-choice groups who opposed the law because they claim it undermines Roe vs Wade would disagree with you.

"The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was strongly opposed by most pro-choice organizations, on grounds that the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision said that the human fetus is not a "person" under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, and that if the fetus were a Fourteenth Amendment "person," then he or she would have a constitutional right to life."
Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do some research before you talk.
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Obviously you are still missing the point. You are using a bad example to prove your point about a fetus not being a person. In that, you are trying to compare a woman getting an abortion to a woman getting assaulted by someone else. I know it may be hard for you to do so, but a better example is certainly warranted if you want to prove your point with this. One involves a woman choosing what to do with her own body, the other doesn't. Would the guy be charged with murder? I don't know. Should he be? Again, I don't know. One thing for sure, is that he should be charged with assault. If that answer doesn't please you, there's nothing I can do for you. If you don't like discussing the topic with me, move on to someone else. Don't assume some sort of pretend authority around here and start throwing orders around just because you didn't like the answer that you got.
 
MaggieD said:
"You abortionists." Learn the definition of the word and stop trying to flame.
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Perhaps you should at least bother to read a dictionary first before telling other people to learn the definition of a word. Since you are at a computer its not that hard to look at a online dictionary, you don't need to dust off that big red Merriam Webster dictionary you have sitting on the shelf somewhere.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abortionist
1.
a person who performs or induces abortions, esp. illegally.
2.
a person who favors or advocates abortion as a right or choice that all women should have: usually intended as an offensive term.


Dr_Patrick said:
Not at all. Pro choice is wanting it to be legal for a mother to make a choice whether it be abortion or otherwise. Hence, the "choice" part of pro-choice. Again, you are basing your rhetoric in emotion and not logic. Try again.
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Pro-abortion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Definition of PROABORTION
: favoring the legalization of abortion

Pro-abortion | Define Pro-abortion at Dictionary.com
pro·a·bor·tion
   /ˌproʊəˈbɔrʃən/ Show Spelled[proh-uh-bawr-shuhn] Show IPA
–adjective
pro-choice.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pro-life
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pro-life
Medical Dictionary

pro-life definition
Pronunciation: /(ˈ)prō-ˈlīf/
Function: adj
: ANTIABORTION

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antiabortion
Medical Dictionary

an·ti·abor·tion definition
Pronunciation: /ˌant-ē-ə-ˈbȯr-shən, ˌan-ˌtī-/
Function: adj
: opposed to abortion and especially to the legalization of abortion


Again pro-choice is pro-abortion and the complete opposite of pro-life. You people shouldn't be offended by something that you are. Of course I am sure that you will mock me for using a dictionary as a source or claim that you were just using your own definition or that definitions change over time.
 
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