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Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

ptif219 said:
No you proved it and got caught
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When you actually have something constructive to add to the debate rather than generic pro-life rhetoric, pathetic attempts at baiting and judging others for their religious choices (which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic), let me know.
 
GarzaUK said:
I will believe what I want :), and I extend you the same statement. But please don't push your religious beliefs on others, thats all we ask.
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So Christians don't have freedom of speech?
 
X Factor said:
Abortion Doctor Charged With Murder - WSJ.com

I wonder what makes this doc any different than other abortion doc. I mean, if it's all about choice, why should it matter how far along the pregnancy is when it's terminated?
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Hmm pretty simple answer, as far as the law is concerned this guy commited murder, not abortion.
Especially since the babies were born first.
 
ptif219 said:
So Christians don't have freedom of speech?
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Who is trying to restrict your freedom of speech? It seems to me like you've done perfectly fine thus far.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
When you actually have something constructive to add to the debate rather than generic pro-life rhetoric, pathetic attempts at baiting and judging others for their religious choices (which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic), let me know.
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It is facts and truth you have no answer for so you distort the truth
 
Dr_Patrick said:
It's sad that you can't see the difference between the two.
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Get your emotions out of the debate, act like a mature adult, and stick to laws and facts. Condescending comments don't add to debates. I'm not here to insult you or bicker with you. I'm here to debate the termination of fetuses and how our legal system deals with that.

Now, I'm asking you from a legal perspective what you think a man should be charged with who commits such an act. You say assault "for one", anything else? If your pregnant girl or fiance got punched in the stomach by someone and your child was killed, would you feel justice was served if the man got convicted of assault? (Keep in mind, if this was his first offense he might not even do any jail time).
 
Johnny Centrist said:
Get your emotions out of the debate, act like a mature adult, and stick to laws and facts. Condescending comments don't add to debates. I'm not here to insult you or bicker with you. I'm here to debate the termination of fetuses and how our legal system deals with that.
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You are once again trying to compare two issues that have nothing to do with each other. The fact that you would even try to use that as an example tells me that you can't see the clear difference between a woman making a choice about her own body and someone assaulting her and thereby killing the fetus. Emotions have nothing to do with it.

Now, I'm asking you from a legal perspective what you think a man should be charged with who commits such an act. You say assault "for one", anything else? If your pregnant girl or fiance got punched in the stomach by someone and your child was killed, would you feel justice was served if the man got convicted of assault? (Keep in mind, if this was his first offense he might not even do any jail time).
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And I gave you an answer. I, like Your Star, am not that familiar with the law system, so I couldn't raelly tell you. I think he should definitely be charged with assault. As for murder, who knows? It would depend on how the justice system would view the issue.
 
Johnny Centrist said:
But you said earlier that a fetus is not a life, so how can he be charged with murder?
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Because there is a difference between a woman having control over her reproductive system, and someone else doing it for her. That's why.
 
GarzaUK said:
You can say we are wrong and destined for hell until your throats hurt, but don't put your religious believes into law for the rest of us to abide by.
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Where did I say any one was going to hell? What power do I have to make laws?
 
ptif219 said:
Where did I say any one was going to hell? What power do I have to make laws?
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But you support using your religious beliefs to make laws, and that is un-American.
 
Your Star said:
Because there is a difference between a woman having control over her reproductive system, and someone else doing it for her. That's why.
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The definition of murder is an unlawful killing. Now certainly, there are a few exceptions where people can legally kill, and they are in times of war, self defense, or police officers who kill to protect other people. You can't kill something that isn't living. So by saying that the man should be charged with murder, you are saying he should be convicted of unlawfully killing a fetus. By saying that you are asserting that a fetus is living. Then by saying abortion should be legal, you are saying women should have the legal right to take the lives, or "kill" their fetuses. Would you agree with this?
 
Dr_Patrick said:
You are once again trying to compare two issues that have nothing to do with each other. The fact that you would even try to use that as an example tells me that you can't see the clear difference between a woman making a choice about her own body and someone assaulting her and thereby killing the fetus.
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Your anger, or your arrogance or your ignorance (I can't decide which one) about this topic is preventing you from seeing the correlation between my points. The abortion debate CENTERS around when a fetus is considered a human being with rights. Every person, including yourself, believes that once a fetus is out of the womb it should be illegal for anyone to terminate it. However some people believe that these laws should apply while the fetus is in the womb and other believe they shouldn't apply. By examining other situations where fetuses are terminated in the womb, we can analyze definitions of "life" and "murder", and try to come to a conclusion of the definition. They are totally related.



Dr_Patrick said:
And I gave you an answer. I, like Your Star, am not that familiar with the law system, so I couldn't raelly tell you. I think he should definitely be charged with assault. As for murder, who knows? It would depend on how the justice system would view the issue.
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I'm not asking you what the laws are, I'm asking your opinion on what they should be. If this were a thread about what the laws already are, there would be no thread because roe vs wade is in effect. Instead this about what people think the law should be. So again, do you think the hypothetical male should be charged with murder?
 
Your Star said:
But you support using your religious beliefs to make laws, and that is un-American.
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How is that. Killing babies is immoral. Does that have to be because of my religion? It is wrong for a mother to kill her child. You do not have to be Christian to know that
 
Johnny Centrist said:
The definition of murder is an unlawful killing. Now certainly, there are a few exceptions where people can legally kill, and they are in times of war, self defense, or police officers who kill to protect other people. You can't kill something that isn't living. So by saying that the man should be charged with murder, you are saying he should be convicted of unlawfully killing a fetus. By saying that you are asserting that a fetus is living. Then by saying abortion should be legal, you are saying women should have the legal right to take the lives, or "kill" their fetuses. Would you agree with this?
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No, I am asserting that a woman should have full control of her reproductive system, and that when someone takes that control away, it should be under the law assumed that the baby was going to be born, and the person who punched her should be charged accordingly.
 
ptif219 said:
How is that. Killing babies is immoral. Does that have to be because of my religion? It is wrong for a mother to kill her child. You do not have to be Christian to know that
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I was not talking about this positions only.
 
Johnny Centrist said:
Your anger, or your arrogance or your ignorance (I can't decide which one) about this topic is preventing you from seeing the correlation between my points. The abortion debate CENTERS around when a fetus is considered a human being with rights. Every person, including yourself, believes that once a fetus is out of the womb it should be illegal for anyone to terminate it. However some people believe that these laws should apply while the fetus is in the womb and other believe they shouldn't apply. By examining other situations where fetuses are terminated in the womb, we can analyze definitions of "life" and "murder", and try to come to a conclusion of the definition. They are totally related.
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No, you are using two completely different topics to try and prove a very weak point. It's a stretch and you know it.

I'm not asking you what the laws are, I'm asking your opinion on what they should be. If this were a thread about what the laws already are, there would be no thread because roe vs wade is in effect. Instead this about what people think the law should be. So again, do you think the hypothetical male should be charged with murder?
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I don't really have an opinion on what they should be. I would have to see how the justice system would weigh in on the issue before I could give an assessment. I'm sorry if that answer isn't sufficient for you, but I'm not going to feed into your whacked out scenario to help prove your weak point. If you don't like that, feel free to discuss the issue with someone else.
 
Your Star said:
I was not talking about this positions only.
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Whats the point. If you are talking gay marriage in my state we have voted twice it is between a man and a woman. That has happened in every state that had a vote on a costitutional ammenment on marriage. Are you saying this happened because of me and my religious beliefs/\?

My beliefs affect how I vote but I have no power to make laws
 
GarzaUK said:
You can say we are wrong and destined for hell until your throats hurt, but don't put your religious believes into law for the rest of us to abide by.
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I've missed your posts Garza. Welcome back.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I don't really have an opinion on what they should be. I would have to see how the justice system would weigh in on the issue before I could give an assessment. I'm sorry if that answer isn't sufficient for you, but I'm not going to feed into your whacked out scenario to help prove your weak point. If you don't like that, feel free to discuss the issue with someone else.
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So you have no opinions of your own and simply go by what the law says? Interesting.

By the way my point isn't "whacked out" and it totally relates to the debate. There is something called the Unborn Victims of Violence Act that was established in 2004 and this brought about intense debate and disapproval from pro-choicers, because, get this...abortion and violence against fetuses are totally related! You suck at debating and you've offered nothing of value to this debate. Go to college.
 
Your Star said:
No, I am asserting that a woman should have full control of her reproductive system, and that when someone takes that control away, it should be under the law assumed that the baby was going to be born, and the person who punched her should be charged accordingly.
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So you are saying that a fetus is considered a life when the woman wants it to live, but it is not considered a life when the woman doesn't want it to live? I had no idea life was relative, lol.
 
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