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Thread: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

  1. #221
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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I just proved to you it can. The only reason you abortionists try to play the you can be pro-life and pro-abortion at the same time is so you people can falsely claim that not all pro-lifers support making abortion illegal. Pro-choice is pro-abortion,because wanting it to be legal for a mother to kill her unborn child is the opposite of pro-life.
    "You abortionists." Learn the definition of the word and stop trying to flame.

    Are you ProLife, JamesRage? Really? Do your partners use birth control pills? They are abortionists, by your definition. And you are guilty by association.

    If ProLifers used half their vitriolic energy toward moving the benchmark and limiting rather than banning it all together, perhaps they could get something accomplished.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    No, I'm saying that I don't have enough information about the legal system to make an informed opinion about it.
    Then why are you in this thread debating? STFU and GTFO if you don't have enough information to form an opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    It doesn't relate to the debate anymore than your lame drug analogy did. You are comparing an issue where a woman has a choice over what is going on in her own body with an issue where a woman is assaulted by someone else. Try again.
    The national pro-choice groups who opposed the law because they claim it undermines Roe vs Wade would disagree with you.

    "The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was strongly opposed by most pro-choice organizations, on grounds that the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision said that the human fetus is not a "person" under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, and that if the fetus were a Fourteenth Amendment "person," then he or she would have a constitutional right to life."
    Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Do some research before you talk.

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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Centrist View Post
    Then why are you in this thread debating? STFU and GTFO if you don't have enough information to form an opinion.
    I didn't realize you were in charge here. You asked me the question and demanded that I answer it. I told you that I didn't have enough information to give an informed opinion and now you are pissing and moaning about it. Get over yourself.

    The national pro-choice groups who opposed the law because they claim it undermines Roe vs Wade would disagree with you.

    "The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was strongly opposed by most pro-choice organizations, on grounds that the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision said that the human fetus is not a "person" under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, and that if the fetus were a Fourteenth Amendment "person," then he or she would have a constitutional right to life."
    Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Do some research before you talk.
    Obviously you are still missing the point. You are using a bad example to prove your point about a fetus not being a person. In that, you are trying to compare a woman getting an abortion to a woman getting assaulted by someone else. I know it may be hard for you to do so, but a better example is certainly warranted if you want to prove your point with this. One involves a woman choosing what to do with her own body, the other doesn't. Would the guy be charged with murder? I don't know. Should he be? Again, I don't know. One thing for sure, is that he should be charged with assault. If that answer doesn't please you, there's nothing I can do for you. If you don't like discussing the topic with me, move on to someone else. Don't assume some sort of pretend authority around here and start throwing orders around just because you didn't like the answer that you got.

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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Centrist View Post
    Then why are you in this thread debating? STFU and GTFO if you don't have enough information to form an opinion.
    Hope I get to know you a bit better before you leave...
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  5. #225
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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    "You abortionists." Learn the definition of the word and stop trying to flame.
    Perhaps you should at least bother to read a dictionary first before telling other people to learn the definition of a word. Since you are at a computer its not that hard to look at a online dictionary, you don't need to dust off that big red Merriam Webster dictionary you have sitting on the shelf somewhere.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abortionist
    1.
    a person who performs or induces abortions, esp. illegally.
    2.
    a person who favors or advocates abortion as a right or choice that all women should have: usually intended as an offensive term.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Not at all. Pro choice is wanting it to be legal for a mother to make a choice whether it be abortion or otherwise. Hence, the "choice" part of pro-choice. Again, you are basing your rhetoric in emotion and not logic. Try again.
    Pro-abortion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    Definition of PROABORTION
    : favoring the legalization of abortion

    Pro-abortion | Define Pro-abortion at Dictionary.com
    pro·a·bor·tion
       /ˌproʊəˈbɔrʃən/ Show Spelled[proh-uh-bawr-shuhn] Show IPA
    –adjective
    pro-choice.


    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pro-life
    opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pro-life
    Medical Dictionary

    pro-life definition
    Pronunciation: /(ˈ)prō-ˈlīf/
    Function: adj
    : ANTIABORTION

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antiabortion
    Medical Dictionary

    an·ti·abor·tion definition
    Pronunciation: /ˌant-ē-ə-ˈbȯr-shən, ˌan-ˌtī-/
    Function: adj
    : opposed to abortion and especially to the legalization of abortion


    Again pro-choice is pro-abortion and the complete opposite of pro-life. You people shouldn't be offended by something that you are. Of course I am sure that you will mock me for using a dictionary as a source or claim that you were just using your own definition or that definitions change over time.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 01-20-11 at 01:26 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    You have to look at it as a realist. Abortions are NEVER going to stop, you can't ignore that fact, and having abortions legal, is better than having it illegal, due to the fact that it will harm women. Abortion by itself isn't good, but when you put it in the context of the real world, having it legal, is better then having it illegal.
    Did you ever take an ethics class in college? Well if you did, you'd remember that ancient philosophers like Aristotle differentiated between Natural Laws and Man-Made Laws. Natural Laws are those things that human beings tend to naturally feel are right or wrong without having to be told. Murder, rape, stealing, etc., most human beings naturally feel those things are wrong and thus they are considered Universal Laws. Man-Made Laws are laws that tend to include a lot of natural Laws but also include laws that aren't universal such as speed limits, zoning and building codes when doing construction, etc. The perfect ideal, according to ancient Greek philosophers and even many modern day legal scholars, is for Man-Made Laws to reflect Natural Laws. Of course as we know, this is not always the case. One example is the legal slavery that existed in America. This where the Natural Laws that slavery is wrong, and State Laws conflicted.

    Now, abortion is a crime that violates the Natural Law. I have never met a woman who didn't feel negative and guilty feelings about getting an abortion. Both you and Doc Patty Cake have both asserted on this thread that you feel abortion is morally wrong but that it should still be legal. Thus, this is a clear case of when Natural Laws conflict with our State Laws. This should not be the case. Natural Laws, that is, things that are naturally considered by most humans to be morally wrong, should also be forbidden within our state laws, or else, justice isn't being served.

    "Natural law or the law of nature (Latin: lex naturalis) has been described as a law whose content is set by nature and that therefore holds everywhere.[1] As classically used, natural law refers to the use of reason to analyze human nature and deduce binding rules of moral behavior. The phrase natural law is opposed to the positive law (meaning "man-made law", not "good law"; cf. posit) of a given political community, society, or nation-state, and thus can function as a standard by which to criticize that law.[2] In natural law jurisprudence, on the other hand, the content of positive law cannot be known without some reference to the natural law"

    Natural law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    One involves a woman choosing what to do with her own body, the other doesn't.
    So you're using the whole "Its the woman's choice to do what she wants with her body" debate? Fair enough. Well then answer me this, what about Siamese twins that share the same body but have two different head? Could one Siamese twin choose to kill the other and not be charged with murder? After all, that person chose what to do with their own body right? Again, I'm not asking what the laws are regarding the situation, I'm asking your opinion on what the law should be, i.e., if YOU consider that murder or not. If you have no opinion of your own on this matter and simply go by whatever the law says then I don't know why you are on a political debate forum because thats what these things are for, debating laws.

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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Perhaps you should at least bother to read a dictionary first before telling other people to learn the definition of a word. Since you are at a computer its not that hard to look at a online dictionary, you don't need to dust off that big red Merriam Webster dictionary you have sitting on the shelf somewhere.

    Abortionist | Define Abortionist at Dictionary.com
    1.
    a person who performs or induces abortions, esp. illegally.
    2. a person who favors or advocates abortion as a right or choice that all women should have: usually intended as an offensive term.
    Exactly right. ...intended as an offensive term. I prefer Merriam Webster's definition.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Centrist View Post
    So you're using the whole "Its the woman's choice to do what she wants with her body" debate? Fair enough. Well then answer me this, what about Siamese twins that share the same body but have two different head? Could one Siamese twin choose to kill the other and not be charged with murder? After all, that person chose what to do with their own body right? Again, I'm not asking what the laws are regarding the situation, I'm asking your opinion on what the law should be, i.e., if YOU consider that murder or not. If you have no opinion of your own on this matter and simply go by whatever the law says then I don't know why you are on a political debate forum because thats what these things are for, debating laws.
    Once again, you are using an example that has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

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    Re: Abortion Doctor Charged with Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I think you are missing the point that there is a minimum threshold that must be met. A two year old qualifies as much as an adult does.
    I dunno.. To me, philosophically, the whole thing can be summed up by simply applying the notion that, as civilized people, it is our duty to protect those that cannot, or are unable to protect themselves. I'd say a 2 year old qualifies, and I'd say a clump of human cells qualifies. If Darwin was correct, we all came from a single cell. I would think a clump of them is vastly more superior, especially when there's a pretty good chance that, that clump will one day become a walking, talking, thinking, individual!

    The fact that some can apply logic that, is merely a matter of degree, and pure semantics to justify abortion has always puzzled me.


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