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Vatican warned Irish bishops not to report abuse

scourge99

scourge99

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110118/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse
Vatican warned Irish bishops not to report abuse
DUBLIN – A 1997 letter from the Vatican warned Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report all suspected child-abuse cases to police — a disclosure that victims' groups described as "the smoking gun" needed to show that the church enforced a worldwide culture of covering up crimes by pedophile priests.

The newly revealed letter, obtained by Irish broadcasters RTE and provided to The Associated Press, documents the Vatican's rejection of a 1996 Irish church initiative to begin helping police identify pedophile priests following Ireland's first wave of publicly disclosed lawsuits.

The letter undermines persistent Vatican claims, particularly when seeking to defend itself in U.S. lawsuits, that Rome never instructed local bishops to withhold evidence or suspicion of crimes from police. It instead emphasizes the church's right to handle all child-abuse allegations and determine punishments in house rather than give that power to civil authorities.

...

Storero wrote that canon law, which required abuse allegations and punishments to be handled within the church, "must be meticulously followed." Any bishops who tried to impose punishments outside the confines of canon law would face the "highly embarrassing" position of having their actions overturned on appeal in Rome, he wrote.

...

Child-abuse activists in Ireland said the 1997 letter demonstrates that the protection of pedophile priests from criminal investigation was not only sanctioned by Vatican leaders but ordered by them.
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The web continues to unravel. How far will the Vatican backpeddle before confessing? Or will it continue its campaign of scapegoating, smokescreening, and lying?
 
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Vatican_letter_1133661a.JPG


Translation: Don't report paedophiles, it's embarrassing.
 
Truly disgusting, and evil. I can't even begin to imagine how people who are supposed to dedicate their lives to God can do these horrible atrocities, and cover them up.
 
I'm Catholic and have become disgusted with the that gold ol' boys club a long time ago. However I don't see this letter as clear cut as the rest of you do. It's just not there. And furthermore I can't believe, if what you accuse them of being there is there, they would be stupid enough to put it in writing.

Sorry this letter doesn't do it for me.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
I'm Catholic and have become disgusted with the that gold ol' boys club a long time ago. However I don't see this letter as clear cut as the rest of you do. It's just not there. And furthermore I can't believe, if what you accuse them of being there is there, they would be stupid enough to put it in writing.

Sorry this letter doesn't do it for me.
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If you read the 4th paragraph, it says. "In particular, the situation of 'mandatory reporting' gives rise to serious reservations of both a moral and canonical nature".

That to me says "church doctrine is against having to report paedophiles", which is a rather questionable stance.
 
spud_meister said:
If you read the 4th paragraph, it says. "In particular, the situation of 'mandatory reporting' gives rise to serious reservations of both a moral and canonical nature".

That to me says "church doctrine is against having to report paedophiles", which is a rather questionable stance.
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Perhaps there is another way to read it. You have to wonder if those "mandatory" reporting requirements conflicted with the sacrament of confession. The sanctity of confession requires that the priest not disclose any information given by the penitent.

This letter, taken without any additional information, is hardly a smoking gun.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
Perhaps there is another way to read it. You have to wonder if those "mandatory" reporting requirements conflicted with the sacrament of confession. The sanctity of confession requires that the priest not disclose any information given by the penitent.

This letter, taken without any additional information, is hardly a smoking gun.
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Well here's the report that the letter is responding to: http://www.catholicbishops.ie/images/docs/csaframework.pdf

The madatory reporting does conflict with the sacrament of confession.

The recommended reporting policy may deter such people from
coming forward or may be perceived by those who do come
forward as an insensitive and heavy-handed response by Church
authorities. This is particularly so where the complaint relates to
incidents of abuse many years earlier.

2.2.5 Nonetheless, undertakings of absolute confidentiality should
not be given but rather the information should be expressly
received within the terms of this reporting policy and on the
basis that only those who need to know will be told
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The Irish church was taking that stance that brining a paedophile to justice is more important than confidentiality, which is a stance I agree with.
 
spud_meister said:
The Irish church was taking that stance that brining a paedophile to justice is more important than confidentiality, which is a stance I agree with.
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Under US law, priest-penitent communications are protected. The same is true in Ireland.

Bringing any criminal to justice is important. But the sanctity of the sacraments has to be the first priority.

You are free to disagree, that is your opinion. But the law is the law.
 
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EnigmaO01 said:
And furthermore I can't believe, if what you accuse them of being there is there, they would be stupid enough to put it in writing.
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Put what in writing? It already is! Multiple attestations speak to this. This is compounded by the he fact that the church CONTINUES to handle things in its own way rather than working with local authorities as a matter of POLICY.

\
The Vatican does advise bishops worldwide to report crimes to police — in a legally nonbinding guide on its website. This recourse is omitted from the official legal advice provided by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and updated last summer.
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The letter, obtained by Irish broadcasters RTE and provided to The Associated Press, documents the Vatican's rejection of an Irish church initiative to begin helping police identify pedophile priests.

Read more: CBC News - World - Vatican letter on sex abuse from '97 revealed
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CBC News - World - Vatican letter on sex abuse from '97 revealed

How much evidence do you need? whats next? You've got to be ignorant or sticking your head in the sand to deny the overwhelming evidence against the Vatican's policy of hiding child molesting priests from criminal prosecution.

EnigmaO01 said:
Sorry this letter doesn't do it for me.
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What would convince some people (such as you)? If the Pope would come out and say it directly and unambiguously? And i bet even then you could spin it to continue the dance of denial.

The church has ****ed up. But that is not what is wrong. What is wrong is they CONTINUE in there ways of hiding criminal priests from prosecution. They think themselves above the law and show no signs of fixing the wrongs that have occurred. Just listgen to the Pope's next speech. You'll see a small hint of sorrow and then scapegoating, smokescreening, and diversions about how its the fault of homosexuals, decadent society, pornography, etc.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
Under US law, priest-penitent communications are protected. The same is true in Ireland.

Bringing any criminal to justice is important. But the sanctity of the sacraments has to be the first priority.

You are free to disagree, that is your opinion. But the law is the law.
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I guess the law is the law unless you're molesting kids. Then, it can be ignored.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Under US law, priest-penitent communications are protected. The same is true in Ireland.

Bringing any criminal to justice is important. But the sanctity of the sacraments has to be the first priority.

You are free to disagree, that is your opinion. But the law is the law.
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How is a priest ****nig little boys "priest-penitent communication"?
 
Hatuey said:
I guess the law is the law unless you're molesting kids. Then, it can be ignored.
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The law is the law unless you have enough money or power to avoid it. Which is exactly what is occurring here.
 
The Irish clergy recognized the problem and drafted a series of procedures and policies to combat the abuse, which were then sent to the Vatican for approval. They included mandatory reporting to the authorities upon receiving a complaint of abuse from a victim. It even included reminders of the legal rights of accused, policies for handling false accusations, and to avoid giving into hate. Nowhere did it instruct to break confession. The Vatican's response shows they were clearly more motivated by covering up crimes to protect the churches reputation than anything else.

What makes this so terrible is that there were elements within the Catholic church who tried to do the right thing, but they were overruled by the corruption at the top.
 
Hatuey said:
I guess the law is the law unless you're molesting kids. Then, it can be ignored.
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You seem to misunderstand. We're not talking about the penitent, we're talking about the confessor. A confessor is bound by confidentiality, it doesn't matter the nature of the sin. Even the worst crimes are protected by priest-penitent confidentiality.

The law is indeed the law.
 
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scourge99 said:
How is a priest ****nig little boys "priest-penitent communication"?
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You also seem to be misunderstanding. Any mandatory reporting requirement is subject to the confessor's duty of confidentiality. The communication is what is at issue here, not the underlying crime.
 
I posted a link to the document in question. You can read it yourself to get proof of my claim.
 
rathi said:
I posted a link to the document in question. You can read it yourself to get proof of my claim.
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But you are mistaken.

2.2.1 said:
In all instances where it is known or suspected that a child has been, or is being, sexually abused by a priest or religious the matter should be reported to the civil authorities.
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This is very broad language. I can certainly see how this could conflict with the confidentiality of confession.
 
5. The recommended reporting policy does not apply to the relationship between penitent and
confessor; the seal of confession is, of course, inviolable. (Cf. the Code of Canon Law, c. 983.)
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I don't think so.
 
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