Vatican warned Irish bishops not to report abuse

Catz Part Deux said:

I think someone has forgotten Luke 17:2:

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

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What you're forgetting is that God is the one who hangs the millstone around the offender's neck.

Guy Incognito said:

What you're forgetting is that God is the one who hangs the millstone around the offender's neck.

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You think that the church's human-made rules overrule protecting children? I think there's going to be a lot of millstones hanging around the necks of the church's hierarchy.

Catz Part Deux said:

I think someone has forgotten Luke 17:2:

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

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Oh, without a doubt, they will have serious reakoning with Jesus, that is for sure... "To whom much is given, much is expected..."

ludahai said:

And priests who molest children ARE subject to criminal law. The point is that if officials of the Church are going to report it, it must be consistant with the tenants of Canon law.

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That is not what I am arguing about. Nowhere have I said the priests should be required to report the crimes. Please read more carefully.

What I am saying is that confessions, even to a priest, should be fairgame in court. Anyone who refuses to testify in court about crimes can and usually is held in contempt of court. Priests who refuse to testify in a court of law about known criminal acts should NOT be exempt.

Do you understand now?

ludahai said:

Priests who molest children ARE subject both to criminal law AND canon law.

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Where have I indicated otherwise? I have never claimed that priests who molest children are NOT subject to both criminal law and canon law. Please read more carefully.

ludahai said:

Molesting children is NOT a part of the Catholic faith

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Where have I said it was? I have never claimed that molesting children was part of catholic faith. Please read more carefully.

ludahai said:

and they have FAR from gotten a free pass on it.

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I have not argued that the Catholic church gets a free pass on raping children. You have misunderstood many of the things I have said. Please re-read or ask questions if you don't understand.

ludahai said:

It has been used as fuel by anti-Catholic bigots throughout the English-speaking world...

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Are you unaware of the Churches POLICY of:
1) shuffling SOME pedophile priests from parish to parish when they are discovered by the church.
2) ordering clergy NOT to report crimes to local authorities so that the church can save face by avoiding public embarrassment. Because of this a proper investigation by state investigators into allegations does NOT occur. Many priests have become repeat offenders even AFTER the church discovers the acts because the church thinks it can handle things on its own and in its own secretive ways.

ludahai said:

If the priest heard it in Confession, it is protected under Canon law as well as Civil law in many countries (including the United States).

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I know that a confession is protected. Its called "priest-penitent privilege". And I disagree with it and stated why.

ludahai said:

(note: laws cannot be made to target or discriminate a particular religion. That is unconstitutional.)

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There is no establishment of religion in laws to protect the sanctity of the Confessional.

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I don't understand what your sentence means. Please rephrase.

ludahai said:

If a priest testified to something he heard in Confession (likely inadmissable as hearsay anyway), he would be subject to defrocking after a Canon law trial...

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I don't care if religion X says they will kill or torture any member who testifies to Y in court. It doesn't mean that loop holes should be inserted into the legal system to pander to that religion. Which is EXACTLY what Priest-penitent privilege is. It is a loop-hole invented to pander to our large Catholic population.

ludahai said:

No, priests are NOT above the law. However, reporting should and must be done within the laws of the Catholic church. People criticize the church for not taking action against the priests. What many people don't understand is that Canon law MUST be followed by bishops and other Church officials and it can sometimes be slow. The Church takes its time so as to not make mistakes. Were mistakes made here? Yes. However, remember that the Church is also founded on the notion of forgiveness. 'Forgive us as we forgive those who trespass against us..." Those are not empty words to the Church.

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Why MUST cannon law be followed when it's clearly stupid, if not downright criminal? Why should/must reporting be done within the laws of the church if it violates civil law as this one is on the verge of being? That's just plain dump and sheep-like. You are right we don't understand that.

ludahai said:

Actually, both Canon AND Civil law were broken. However, bishops are required to work within Canon law before punishment can be meted out to a priest within the Church. Actually, on the whole, the Church has a pretty good track record over the centuries. However, some people may be disatisfied (as I am at times) with the glacial pace of that system...

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Are you kidding me?